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#12360059 - 07/26/17 07:17 PM 3-fish tournaments... Is there science to support it?
TxBazzn Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 03/14/14
Posts: 149
It seems to be common place whenever it gets hot that 3 fish limits become the norm for tournaments instead of the traditional 5. I've searched the web and can't find any true research supporting that belief (not saying it's not there, I just haven't seen any). Most of today's live well systems are loaded with oxygenators and tournament anglers are more aware of fish care and use some sort of fish care product, so what's the deal?
I want to understand whether the concept is real or just a product of tradition where they assume all the fish are going to die so might as well only make it 3 per angler.
3-fish tournaments are significantly different in approach than 5 so making that sort of switch during trail events for summer tournaments can really change the dynamics. Just curious if it's worth it or are we just doing what we always did because we always did it..
All thoughts and opinions are welcome but I'm really interested in facts to help me understand. Thanks everyone.

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#12360067 - 07/26/17 07:21 PM Re: 3-fish tournaments... Is there science to support it? [Re: TxBazzn]
WAWI Offline
TFF Guru

Registered: 05/18/07
Posts: 21017
popcorn2

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#12360084 - 07/26/17 07:30 PM Re: 3-fish tournaments... Is there science to support it? [Re: TxBazzn]
horseplaydvm Offline
TFF Celebrity

Registered: 05/07/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Ok, USA
Do you need a research paper to prove that mortality increases during tournaments in the hotter months?
Assume 1 in 20 Bass die from a tournament held in July. Total bass caught by 40 anglers for a five fish limit during the tournament is 200. That would mean 10 Bass would die during that tournament. Now make that a three fish limit. Now you have 120 total fish for a total mortality of 6 fish. I would also say that the mortality rate will decrease with fewer Bass in the livewell but I only have personal experience to prove it.
Maybe someone can give you a specific research study.
_________________________

Gone Fishing
B.A.S. 6/5/47-6/6/12

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#12360196 - 07/26/17 08:33 PM Re: 3-fish tournaments... Is there science to support it? [Re: TxBazzn]
Thad Rains Online   content
TFF Team Angler

Registered: 10/09/01
Posts: 3138
Loc: Lubbock, Texas.
On our Working Mans T for Alan Henry, Lubbock set the limit at 3 fish, of course, we fish a WEIRD lake for limits. ANY 2 fish, ANY LENGTH may be kept, but if you keep a 3rd fish, it has to be 18" long or longer. That applies to Alabama spotted bass and LMB. Heard someone caught a Smallie last year that was only 1.25 lbs, if THAT is so, some of the smallies spawned and are continuing to spawn, which is GREAT news for all of us in the panhandle. NOW we just need to get TPWD to stock more smallies. Here is the exception rule for AH.

For largemouth and spotted bass there is no minimum length limit. Combined daily bag limit for all species of black bass = 5 fish. Up to 5 largemouth or spotted bass may be retained; however, only 2 may be less than 18 inches.

IF you catch a smallie, it is state wide regulations of 14", as that species is not listed in the AH registrar. Go figure.

Tight lines, keep safe and good luck.

Thad Rains
_________________________
Tight lines, keep safe and good luck.

Thad Rains

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#12360261 - 07/26/17 09:14 PM Re: 3-fish tournaments... Is there science to support it? [Re: TxBazzn]
Flippin-Out Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 02/25/15
Posts: 2167
Loc: Magnolia, TX
Originally Posted By: TxBazzn
It seems to be common place whenever it gets hot that 3 fish limits become the norm for tournaments instead of the traditional 5. I've searched the web and can't find any true research supporting that belief (not saying it's not there, I just haven't seen any). Most of today's live well systems are loaded with oxygenators and tournament anglers are more aware of fish care and use some sort of fish care product, so what's the deal?
I want to understand whether the concept is real or just a product of tradition where they assume all the fish are going to die so might as well only make it 3 per angler.
3-fish tournaments are significantly different in approach than 5 so making that sort of switch during trail events for summer tournaments can really change the dynamics. Just curious if it's worth it or are we just doing what we always did because we always did it..
All thoughts and opinions are welcome but I'm really interested in facts to help me understand. Thanks everyone.


Given an equal number of anglers in two scenarios, the one with the lower fish cap will bring fewer fish to the scale, and fewer would have been kept in livewells vs. immediate release.

So, it is very easy to simulate a set of results (using typical tournament data). Any fish released immediately has a better chance of survival from a risk perspective. Conversely, fewer fish are exposed to livewell holding and going to the scale. THERE IS MORTALITY from this - it has been proven over and over, though survival is a heck of a lot better than vs. a fillet knife.

Therefore, fewer fish in the livewell (in total) and fewer fish at the scales (in total) will mean fewer dead fish 3 days later. It's not necessarily proven that 3 survive better than 5 from a crowding perspective in a livewell, but the rule DOES reduce the number that are put at risk of dying by the shear limitation on how many get subjected to this.

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#12360295 - 07/26/17 09:28 PM Re: 3-fish tournaments... Is there science to support it? [Re: TxBazzn]
H2ODawg67 Offline
Angler

Registered: 04/07/17
Posts: 336
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: TxBazzn
It seems to be common place whenever it gets hot that 3 fish limits become the norm for tournaments instead of the traditional 5. I've searched the web and can't find any true research supporting that belief (not saying it's not there, I just haven't seen any). Most of today's live well systems are loaded with oxygenators and tournament anglers are more aware of fish care and use some sort of fish care product, so what's the deal?
I want to understand whether the concept is real or just a product of tradition where they assume all the fish are going to die so might as well only make it 3 per angler.
3-fish tournaments are significantly different in approach than 5 so making that sort of switch during trail events for summer tournaments can really change the dynamics. Just curious if it's worth it or are we just doing what we always did because we always did it..
All thoughts and opinions are welcome but I'm really interested in facts to help me understand. Thanks everyone.

What are you trying to understand? Are you putting on tournaments? If so, set the limit to what you want within the guidelines of the law if you want to kill fish. If you are fishing tournaments and want to turn in more fish, pick the one where the TD puts profit over the sport and the future of the fisheries.
_________________________
Formerly H2ODawg

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#12360300 - 07/26/17 09:31 PM Re: 3-fish tournaments... Is there science to support it? [Re: TxBazzn]
squib Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 01/03/03
Posts: 1309
Loc: Lubbock, TX
Don't base any decision or opinion on oxygenators providing any benefit. Research has shown they do not. I like 3-fish tournaments in the summer as I assume livewells can better support less biomass than more in hot weather.

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#12360414 - 07/26/17 10:39 PM Re: 3-fish tournaments... Is there science to support it? [Re: TxBazzn]
Donald Harper Offline
TFF Guru

Registered: 01/25/08
Posts: 14804
Loc: Justin, TX.
I have seen Parks and Wildlife do lots of studies on Lake Amistad. Watched them put huge cages to hold a select few of Bass for 3 days after big tournaments to see just how many make it and how many don't. Wish I knew the results. I agree all these surveys like this will help. The results just needs to be published somewhere for the public to view.
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#12360471 - 07/26/17 11:10 PM Re: 3-fish tournaments... Is there science to support it? [Re: horseplaydvm]
cephusjoe Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1400
Originally Posted By: horseplaydvm
Do you need a research paper to prove that mortality increases during tournaments in the hotter months?
Assume 1 in 20 Bass die from a tournament held in July. Total bass caught by 40 anglers for a five fish limit during the tournament is 200. That would mean 10 Bass would die during that tournament. Now make that a three fish limit. Now you have 120 total fish for a total mortality of 6 fish. I would also say that the mortality rate will decrease with fewer Bass in the livewell but I only have personal experience to prove it.
Maybe someone can give you a specific research study.


This is the same way I feel
_________________________
Mcurtain county okie

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#12360638 - 07/27/17 07:33 AM Re: 3-fish tournaments... Is there science to support it? [Re: TxBazzn]
Bigron119 Offline
TFF Team Angler

Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 4293
Loc: Lufkin, TX
Must be the new Common Core math! Hot Weather + More Fish = Better, Hot Weather - Less Fish = Worse
roflmao loco

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#12360651 - 07/27/17 07:42 AM Re: 3-fish tournaments... Is there science to support it? [Re: WAWI]
Frank the Tank Online   content
TFF Guru

Registered: 02/27/13
Posts: 23318
Loc: Hideaway, TX
Originally Posted By: WAWI
popcorn2


Hey! That's my line!

None of this would be an issue if everyone has VT-2 live-well vents
_________________________
sinner..... saved by grace I don't deserve

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#12360663 - 07/27/17 07:57 AM Re: 3-fish tournaments... Is there science to support it? [Re: Frank the Tank]
Fishinfellow Offline
TFF Team Angler

Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 3293
Loc: North Richland Hills, TX
Originally Posted By: Frank the Tank
None of this would be an issue if everyone has VT-2 live-well vents


Now that's funny right there roflmao
_________________________
Thats my money fish

Kris Winhold

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#12360666 - 07/27/17 07:59 AM Re: 3-fish tournaments... Is there science to support it? [Re: TxBazzn]
Huckleberry Offline
TFF Guru

Registered: 10/10/07
Posts: 18044
Loc: Lake Gaston, VA
Just make it a rule that everyone needs to use mono. There's no way anyone could catch more than three fish using mono.

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#12360669 - 07/27/17 08:00 AM Re: 3-fish tournaments... Is there science to support it? [Re: Frank the Tank]
Jaret Latta Offline
TFF Celebrity

Registered: 01/06/07
Posts: 8101
Loc: Austin, Tx/Nacogdoches, Tx
Originally Posted By: Frank the Tank
Originally Posted By: WAWI
popcorn2


Hey! That's my line!

None of this would be an issue if everyone has VT-2 live-well vents


Or pure oxygen systems

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#12360676 - 07/27/17 08:04 AM Re: 3-fish tournaments... Is there science to support it? [Re: TxBazzn]
Lucky Al Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 2474
Loc: Rio Grande Valley
Just common sense!

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