Long skinny yaks are my style and I've never felt tippy in one. Owned hobie adventure and Trident 15.

There are a lot of good features in this kayak. Seems kinda shady going to another company and recruiting its employees. Imo. I hope thats not how things were done. We can all pick apart this yak all day but at the end of the day its a wide, stable yak that caters twards stability,,,not bad, a safe first couple models. In todays market it seems everyone says they want to stand all day and fish but in reality most just stand to take a leak or streach the legs. I also have to stand long enough to get bait but after that im sitting most of the time. Ive also seen a trend of gadgets on kayaks. It seems the more colorfull things you can work into a kayak,,,realistically functional or not means sales. We all have our own way we need to fish and im sure this yak will fit into some kayak anglers needs, at first glance, not mine. I need a yak that can cover water. This is gonna be a shorter range yak.

That said...i like competition in the kayak world. It forces improvement with all companies.

It's these kind of developments that contributes to the popularity and growth of kayak fishing.
That in it of itself is a win, win, for all of us!

We haven't seen the end of the innovation, either.

But, interestingly, there seems to be a cap on the top-end pricing: around $3500 seems to represent the high range folks are willing to pay for kayaks. Yes, a Hobie 17T is much more than $3500 but they don't sell a lot of them either.

At $3500 for just a well-equipped "off the show room floor" kayak, I suppose the range of "after purchase adds" would be anywhere from $500 to $1500. At $1500 plus $3500, one is suddenly at $5000. This is before we then move on to fishing tackle and the expenses there.

I think $5000 is about as high as they can take us. At that level, actually much lower, you target market really diminishes. Even though I, and others, don't necessarily want a boat, we seem to show some resistance to paying boat prices for kayaks.

These new Bonafide kayaks can likely capture some market share as they are in the general price range that people will spend for a paddle-only yak.

One thing that might be an issue? Cifers and his team designed these kayaks with almost ALL considerations related to stability in the secondary phase. So these kayaks will feel very loose in a seated position. Even though as these kayaks tilt and encounter the secondary stability, will the feeling of tipping over be off-putting? I agree with another post that while many do stand often, if you just watch videos, tournaments, what you see at the lakes, irrespective of what is claimed, most kayak fishing is performed seated. Few of us fish the flats of Florida where standing for site fishing is more common. And, seasonally, if you are bed fishing, this is just a sliver of a year.

I agree with the perch pad idea being, well, sort of an after-thought where the designers just threw it in. Few will use it, I suspect, few CAN use it . . . failing the flexibility test to get up there. And, once you snag a fish, what then? How do you get back down with a fish flopping around in one hand? Acrobatic requirements.

Brad

I agree with what you are saying, and probably causing boat manufacturers to be looking over their shoulder as the kayak market may be starting to eat away at their sales.

There is no one perfect kayak. That's why I have 5. This kayak has its place. There are some good things about it and some bad. This is just the beginning and I'm looking forward to see what's next. Luther is the king of gadgets and his design team is top notch. If you like touring, fishing offshore, inshore, rivers, ponds or lakes, I bet there will be something for you in the coming years.

Funny thing too, you can get a real good boat (used) for the price of some of the kayaks today.

Absolutely agree, and they have their place and always will.
I've owned a motor powered boat for the majority of my adult life and still do, but they can be a pain to maintain, store, upkeep, whereas a kayak to two are three are a lot less so, and a lot more fun in my opinion.

Jimbo, you are correct about the boat makers looking over their shoulders. But, if so, if kayaks are really causing them some stress, we should see lower prices. I am uncertain whether this has happened or not.

Since aluminum boats are often less expensive, these manufacturers have plenty of room to drop prices. Aluminum is way down in price, MUCH lower than it was 10 years ago. So is copper. See any savings passed through?

Plastic is largely made from petrochemical stock, same thing here I think.

***Todd, I think Luther is great on the gadget side, for sure. It is danged tough, as you know, to make any substantial improvements in hull designs. Boats have been around for thousands of years . . . they are at the point where all they can do is tweak them a bit, at best. I personally see nothing, not a thing, that is all that leading edge on Luther's hull design. What he seems to be doing is simply "moving" the scales, so to speak, where he has sacrificed primary stability to a greater degree to supplement secondary stability more so than other kayak makers. But, any one of them, I'd imagine would have known how to do that.

Aluminum prices below. Brad

You would think that the boat manufacturers would start seeing a trend and make their lower end boats more attractive by adding some built in accessories and such.
I don't think they would lower the price, but maybe some add on's to entice the buyer.
Upper end kayaks are fishing machines, while the lower end boats are more utilitarian being as plain as dry cereal.

Kayaks have been around for about 4000 years. The white water modern kayak less than 50 years. Plastic roto-mold less than 50 years, Fishing SOT kayaks less than 40 years. Hobie introduced the Mirage pedal drive in 1997. Standing design kayaks we use today around 10 years. No I don't see much new hull designs coming but computers and testing pools are changing ship design today and ships have been around for a long time too. The future will bring some new designs or maybe more user friendly with nicer bells and whistle. It's insane how much has changed in the last 5 years. Just 5 years ago there wasn't any of the cool things we have now thanks to Luther. I had to use milk crates, PVC, and drill all over my kayak to mount things. Go try a Jackson Cuda if you want to feel loose primary stability and strong secondary. Jackson has been doing it for years. I personally don't like loose primary so I will have to see. Everybody talks about this kayaks primary stability like they have already tried it. I never said a thing about this kayak but that it has some good and some bad. I said I'm looking forward to see what's next. That design team has designed some of the best quality and top selling kayaks on the market. There is a future for Bonafide IMO. As I always say-DEMO DEMO DEMO! I will demo this boat then I will decide if I like it or not. Not that I'm looking for a new kayak. Just like seeing what's hot or not.

Todd, sure, I agree with almost all of your comments. There won't likely be any "significant" improvements in hull designs in terms of speed and stability, I think, maybe some tweaking left to get another few tenths of a MPH, a tiny less wobble. What will likely change the most is all of the add-ons that Luther and others have developed. Wow! What an explosion.

Posted elsewhere, speaking of Jackson and your mentioning its Cuda and loose primary stability, it is bringing out a 12'1" model named Liska that will be 34" wide to address stability. Price point is expected to be $1349.

Brad