A lot of gar fisherman actually encourage the gar to swallow their treble hooks, waiting extra long after the take to set the hook to be sure the fish is hooked "good". They release them after the fight by cutting the line and leaving the fish gut hooked. Then those same guys get on here and bash the bow hunting guys.

One reason could be that compared to what fish are called game fish right now there is just not that many people that fish for them .

Another reason could be that if they were a gamefish they rules on how you may take them would change and no one wants to get involved in that issue .

What would be the reasons for wanting it to be called a game fish?

Not trying to argue a point just trying to truly understand where you are coming from.

I am all for alligator gar becoming a game fish but not if it is going to push bow fishing for them out of the picture.

im using the exact same methods used by TPWD to tag and release 6000+ alligator gar in Texas and I have improved on their methods i suggest you contact TPWD and tell them your concerns on their methods.
every gar i have ever caught has swam away healthy i challenge you to find me a single video or picture of an alligator gar i have caught that is bleeding or did not release healthy.
Just because you can not target these fish catch and release doesn't mean others haven't figured out how to do it.

Don't know if you gut hook them or not, don't know you from Adam. Didn't say I haven't caught them, you did. The "let them swallow it" part was shown to me by a guide that has caught 1000's at least and I have no reason to believe I was his only customer using his special trick. All other catch and release fishermen, bass, catfish, carp, all try to avoid gut hooking fish. Sure lots of studies say gut hooked fish can live, I've read them.

In MY opinion intentionally gut hooking fish then releasing them and turning around and bashing a bow hunter legally harvesting fish is being a hypocrite.

Shark bait I don't believe that any of these posts are personally attacking you as a gar fisherman. I have seen your videos and truly believe you are as ethical a fisherman as can be.

These guys are bow fisherman who feel like they are being attacked and lumped in with unethical bow fisherman and unrightfully blamed for alligator gar decline.

What they are stating is that there are just as many unethical fisherman as there are bow fisherman.

Again it should not be an argument between bow fishing and rod fishing it should be between ethical and unethical fishing. Those on the ethical side should be policing , and educating those on the unethical side.

Alligator gar certainly merit management status and the commensurate protections. That said, bowfishing is indeed a sport. If it's legal, the practitioners don't deserve to be vilified. Yes, there are unethical bowfishermen; there are also unethical hunters, fly fishermen, bass fishermen, trout fishermen, tournament anglers, and on and on and on, ad nauseum. Some people just don't respect the resource, whether it's fish, animals, birds, plants, or other people. The key is education, not lumping people arbitrarily into good and "bad" groups. I have chased down a great many floats in several bays over the years that were obviously attached to hooked fish, some I caught and some I didn't; the majority of the ones I caught had a fish on a treble hook on the terminal end. Obviously shrimp fishermen. Ever seen a post from me vilifying shrimp fishermen? I have seen a lot of shrimp fishermen drag hooked stingrays up on a reef and unhook them, then intentionally leave them out of the water to die. It really disgusts me to see that, but it certainly doesn't mean that all live shrimp anglers are a$$holes. Just those few, and the majority of live shrimp fishermen don't deserve to be categorized with those slobs (take note: I've never caught a stingray on a fly). Hoghunter 36 nailed it.

There is nothing wrong with bow fishing in and of itself. I would have no problem with the taking of any species of fish with a bow as long as the limits are the same as with a rod. Of course that can't happen because you can't measure them before you shoot and once it has an arrow in it you can't release it and expect it to live.

The issue I have with bow fishing is simple. I do not believe in the killing of these fish and then discarding them. That includes the old " I throw them out in the pasture for "fertilizer".

I know I know not all bow fisherman do this. At least that is what they say right and I am sure that there are some that do eat all that they shoot.

To all you bow fisherman on here please honestly answer the following:

Do you keep and eat the gar, carp and buffalo that you kill? Or do you give them to people that you know will?

Do you honestly believe that "most" bow fisherman keep and eat the carp, gar and buffalo that they shoot?

I went to the Texas Bowfishing Association site just yesterday for the first time. Two thing I noticed.

One was that while it is a fishing site there are no pictures of any fishing, catching, fish or holding up the fish that they "caught" That seemed odd to me, I wonder why that is?

The second was on the list of past tournament winners. If I read it right the teams would shoot several hundred fish. One winning team shot over five hundred fish.

What happens to these hundreds and hundreds of dead fish per tournament?

Are ya'll trying to say one team eats or gives to those that will eat over 500 carp, buffalo, and gar? Ad if they are not eating them what are they doing with them? Do they have commercial license and are selling them for use as food or bait? Are they donating them to the Food Bank? Are they giving them to some body to dump in the back pasture for "fertilizer"?



Educate me......The only thing I ask is that you Be 100% honest!!!!!!!! If you can't then please don't make things up to suite the agenda. I really want to know the true answers because I can only go by my personal observation from fishing below the Lake Livingston Dam on the Trinity River for many many years. And my observation may not be the whole story.

Excellent observation!


Side Note: As long as all laws are followed I have no problem with bow hunting. I do have a problem with giant fish being killed for the "so called sport of it"! It took years upon years for some fish to get big and just seconds to end it's life. I guess the best way is to try to change the law! Would love to see a size limit! Just my two cents.

First of all this is exactly what is being talked about here in the way that legal bow fisherman are being treated and viewed. It is almost offensive that you would imply that all bow fishermen just waste their catch/kill. Have you ever been stopped after a day of crappie or cat fishing and asked what your intentions for the use of the fish are? I have never and will never support breaking the law in any way. The topic you bring up here is one that has been debated over and over. What classifies as a legal use of the fish and not a waste of game. Is throwing them out for fertilizer legal? I do not know I guess that is up to the game warden, but if it is then I guess there would be nothing wrong for someone to do it and I would not judge(again if it is legal).

I will answer with what I use my fish for and I am being 100 percent honest. First of all I eat most of it. Have you ever had fried gar? It is pretty stinking good. You can get a lot of good meat from a decent sized gar. The fish that I do not eat is pressure cooked and fed to my dogs. So yes I use 100 percent of what is caught.

Do all bow fishermen do this? I can't answer for them, but I will ask this question. Do all fish that are caught by rod and reel get utilized? Do all the hogs that are killed get eaten?

I have never bow fished in a tournament, but I would think that whatever they are doing with the fish must be legal, or it would be shut down by TPWD. So if it is legal then I don't think as sportsmen we should judge. Like mentioned above there are probably people that do illegal things in any sport, but that doesn't mean everyone that participates in it should be shunned.

poor little gar.

While I understand the premise of your thought, your clouding the truth.
The truth is that no species has gone extinct from REGULATED hunting or harvest. The rules put in place are there to ensure there is a viable number of animals for our future.

Isn't the limit 1 per day?

Yes I have eaten gar, carp and buffalo. They are all perfectly fine for eating. Do you believe that most people think they are good eating? In my experience the vast majority of people when asked consider these to be "trash fish".

It may be technically legal, but I don't believe killing a bunch of fish and dumping them in the "pasture", or "garden" as fertilizer is really a legitimate use. I do not believe that it is an ethical use of these fish unless you are truly using these fish as fertilizer. That would not mean simply dumping them out in a pasture and calling it "fertilizer". Legitimately using whole fish as "fertilizer" involves more than simply dumping them out on the ground. Again that is My Opinion. All these bow fisherman do not have "gardens" large enough to accommodate that many dead and rotting fish as "fertilizer". Again just my opinion.

I base that opinion on the fact that most people when asked consider gar, carp, buffalo to be trash fish. And most of those that say they like gar also say "but they are a pain to clean so I don't mess with them".

I base that on personal observation from many many years fishing the same location on the same river. I have personally observed many different bow fishing rigs, some of them guides, launch in the evening and when I wake up the next morning the banks are littered with dead and dying gar, carp and buffalo. All will have an arrow hole in them. I have seen this over and over and over.


You are correct in that I do not know what is done with all of the fish that rod and real fisherman keep. I am certain that some of it ends up getting wasted by spoiling before it gets cleaned or simply laid up in a freezer till it goes bad and gets tossed. However I guarantee you that far more rod and reel fisherman keep and clean their catch with honest intention of using it than bow fisherman. I don't see how any one can dispute that when gar, carp, and buffalo are consider "trash fish" and inedible by the majority of people.

I notice that you say you eat the gar you kill. What about the buffalo and carp you eat them?

Like I said I have no problem with bow fishing in and of itself. All I would like to see is an honest admission that most of these fish are not being used in and ethical, sportsman like fashion and let the chips fall where they may. It will not be people like me that question these thing that ends legal bow fishing. If anything it will be the continued killing and dumping of these fish by bow fisherman that will cause the end of it.

I still wonder why there are no pics of any bow killed fish on the Official Texas Bow Fishing Association web site. I still would like to know what they do with the hundreds and hundreds of dead gar, carp and buffalo killed in one of their tournaments.

Every once in awhile, I'm tempted to announce that I'll accept dead carp, gar, etc to use in my compost barrels, as I have eight barrels in use at any given time. But I'm morally certain that if I made such an announcement, there would be truckloads of dead fish dumped in my driveway, and realistically, I could only put about a dozen such fish into the compost at one time without overloading the coffee grounds, grass clipping, etc.

I do agree with the observations of bowhunters killing truckloads of fish in a short time with no intent to actually use them, and I don't think it's only a small minority of such participants who engage in such egregious waste. But I certainly don't think that all bowhunters behave like this.

The fish that I do not eat is pressure cooked and fed to my dogs. So yes I use 100 percent of what is caught.

I guess we can continue to beat a dead horse, but the bottom line is if what is being done is illegal then those breaking the law should be punished.

If someone is enjoying the sport within the confines of the law, then they should be left alone and not lumped in with those that are doing something illegal. Dumping fish in the river is not legal, and if I saw a fellow bow fisherman doing such a thing I would confront him and turn him in if he continued. Just because a couple of guys might do that it does not mean all of use do. I agree that this is something that needs to be stopped, BECAUSE IT IS ILLEGAL.

If you don't like the sport and think it is unethical, then don't attack those that are doing something that is perfectly legal. Attack the legislatures that make the laws, and push for something to change.