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Re: 6.7 Cummins-Exhaust Brake everyday driving
[Re: THF_BigPig]
#12120171
03/02/17 03:09 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 38,822
KingwoodCat
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 38,822 |
For starters, it's not a true exhaust brake but the turbo adjustable valve closing creating the back pressure. Also, the engine brake ordinances are for heavy duty trucks, anything under 1.5 tons rating is considered a light duty truck, no matter what your tailgate says.
I run mine on my 14 all the time. A good friend is a Cummins mechanic and said it doesn't hurt anything and keeps the valve moving. Same theory as using your 4x4 10 miles per 1,000 as mentioned in your owners manual. Tell that to the cops in Corrigan, Dibol, Moscow, Bay City, Wharton, etc. the signs say "No Engine Braking", not "No Engine Braking for 18 wheelers only".
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him had better take a look at the American Indian".
Henry Ford
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Re: 6.7 Cummins-Exhaust Brake everyday driving
[Re: KingwoodCat]
#12123170
03/04/17 06:46 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,176
THF_BigPig
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,176 |
For starters, it's not a true exhaust brake but the turbo adjustable valve closing creating the back pressure. Also, the engine brake ordinances are for heavy duty trucks, anything under 1.5 tons rating is considered a light duty truck, no matter what your tailgate says.
I run mine on my 14 all the time. A good friend is a Cummins mechanic and said it doesn't hurt anything and keeps the valve moving. Same theory as using your 4x4 10 miles per 1,000 as mentioned in your owners manual. Tell that to the cops in Corrigan, Dibol, Moscow, Bay City, Wharton, etc. the signs say "No Engine Braking", not "No Engine Braking for 18 wheelers only". "Engine brake" and "exhaust brake" are 2 completely different things that somewhat achieve the same thing. They both create extra back pressure to slow a vehicle , but in different ways. An engine brake works on the valves, keeping them closed longer, and this creates that LOUD popping that everybody associates with 18-wheelers. An exhaust brake is typically down stream of the turbo, and is a butterfly valve that will close, creating back pressure, and is not very loud at all. On the Cummins, they use an exhaust brake, but it is designed into the variable geometry turbo, and is the least effective of the 3 styles, but is still plenty for what these trucks are. I'd love to explain the difference of each to one of those officers
Last edited by THF_BigPig; 03/04/17 06:47 AM.
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Re: 6.7 Cummins-Exhaust Brake everyday driving
[Re: THF_BigPig]
#12124285
03/05/17 01:35 AM
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,413
TCK73
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,413 |
For starters, it's not a true exhaust brake but the turbo adjustable valve closing creating the back pressure. Also, the engine brake ordinances are for heavy duty trucks, anything under 1.5 tons rating is considered a light duty truck, no matter what your tailgate says.
I run mine on my 14 all the time. A good friend is a Cummins mechanic and said it doesn't hurt anything and keeps the valve moving. Same theory as using your 4x4 10 miles per 1,000 as mentioned in your owners manual. Tell that to the cops in Corrigan, Dibol, Moscow, Bay City, Wharton, etc. the signs say "No Engine Braking", not "No Engine Braking for 18 wheelers only". "Engine brake" and "exhaust brake" are 2 completely different things that somewhat achieve the same thing. They both create extra back pressure to slow a vehicle , but in different ways. An engine brake works on the valves, keeping them closed longer, and this creates that LOUD popping that everybody associates with 18-wheelers.
An exhaust brake is typically down stream of the turbo, and is a butterfly valve that will close, creating back pressure, and is not very loud at all. On the Cummins, they use an exhaust brake, but it is designed into the variable geometry turbo, and is the least effective of the 3 styles, but is still plenty for what these trucks are. I'd love to explain the difference of each to one of those officers Close, but the engine brake, (Jacobs, Pac Brake and others) actually open the exhaust valve just a little at the top of the compression stroke turning the engine into an air compressor. And I hear ya on the officers not knowing the difference.
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Re: 6.7 Cummins-Exhaust Brake everyday driving
[Re: Maverickoutdoorstx]
#12125596
03/06/17 12:21 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 40
Dmaxdriver
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 40 |
when using the exhaust brake, what component is stressed the most....... Answer is the engine & transmission (and it's clutches). They have to absorb the energy (heat)that the brakes normally generate when slowing/stopping. The transmission takes the brunt of the heat that is generated. we all know that heat is the enemy of transmissions. the clutches in a transmission are coated with "friction material". while not the exact material used for the friction material in a brake pad, it serves the same purpose (to grab on to the metal plates in the clutch stack in the transmission).
now when those friction materials wear out, your transmission starts to slip, and you have to get it rebuilt. This is a very expensive prospect on our 3/4 and 1 ton trucks with the big transmissions. Now compare that to the cost of new pads, and a brake job on your truck, then ask yourself...... If I don't need the exhaust brake for normal driving, why would I subject my expensive engine and transmission to this additional wear and tear when my realatively inexpensive brakes do the job just fine and were engineered to do this job. And remember, there is a clutch at work inside every modern lock up torque converter. So that clutch is also getting worked hard when the exhaust brake is engaged.
An exhaust brake was designed for use on downward sloping grades where you don't want to have to ride your brakes in order to keep from building up too much speed. The risk is that you overheat your brakes, and then can't stop. Of course this is much worse when towing near the max GVWR of our trucks. So just like the big rigs, the OEM's added engine braking years ago (my 2002 duramax/allison has this). Then as the GVWR of our trucks grew over the years, they needed to add more than just the rotating mass, and compression braking provided by the engine. So then they added the exhaust brake to the engines turbo in order to make the engine provide more engine braking.
BUT you only need it when towing!!, or your going down that huge grade in the mountains and don't want to ride your brakes while not towing. But here in TX that is not much terrain that provides the need for grade braking.
When towing on flat land, the exhaust brake just adds to the abundant braking that our vehicles possess, and allows you to brake in shorter distances in emergencies. So save some wear and tear on your transmission and don't use the exhaust brake for every day driving. You don't need it for towing your bass boat either. But as mentioned in some of the replies above, give it a work out every 1000 miles just to keep it exercised. and no exhaust brakes do not clean your turbo. pulling 12K loads and driving your EGT's up into the 1000F range burns any carbon off the inducer wheel of the turbo, not 150F air being pumped by the motor when it's being used as an exhaust brake.
And most (not all), know less about any given vehicle than what you find in the owners manual.
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Re: 6.7 Cummins-Exhaust Brake everyday driving
[Re: Maverickoutdoorstx]
#12125721
03/06/17 01:26 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,176
THF_BigPig
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,176 |
Iveriwed many 10,000lb loads with my 14 Cummins, it maintain 196-200 temp in the transmission regardless of the load, empty or not. Even while using it for 2 hours straight going through the mountains in Colorado and really working the exhaust brake, I never saw above 200. I get rid of a truck when the warranty is out, so I don't care about wearing the trans out before warranty expires. You may not "need" it when towing your bass boat, but it doesn't hurt to have the added braking power provided from the EB
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Re: 6.7 Cummins-Exhaust Brake everyday driving
[Re: Dmaxdriver]
#12152594
03/22/17 01:49 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,774
Holzer
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,774 |
when using the exhaust brake, what component is stressed the most....... Answer is the engine & transmission (and it's clutches). They have to absorb the energy (heat)that the brakes normally generate when slowing/stopping. The transmission takes the brunt of the heat that is generated. we all know that heat is the enemy of transmissions. the clutches in a transmission are coated with "friction material". while not the exact material used for the friction material in a brake pad, it serves the same purpose (to grab on to the metal plates in the clutch stack in the transmission).
now when those friction materials wear out, your transmission starts to slip, and you have to get it rebuilt. This is a very expensive prospect on our 3/4 and 1 ton trucks with the big transmissions. Now compare that to the cost of new pads, and a brake job on your truck, then ask yourself...... If I don't need the exhaust brake for normal driving, why would I subject my expensive engine and transmission to this additional wear and tear when my realatively inexpensive brakes do the job just fine and were engineered to do this job. And remember, there is a clutch at work inside every modern lock up torque converter. So that clutch is also getting worked hard when the exhaust brake is engaged.
An exhaust brake was designed for use on downward sloping grades where you don't want to have to ride your brakes in order to keep from building up too much speed. The risk is that you overheat your brakes, and then can't stop. Of course this is much worse when towing near the max GVWR of our trucks. So just like the big rigs, the OEM's added engine braking years ago (my 2002 duramax/allison has this). Then as the GVWR of our trucks grew over the years, they needed to add more than just the rotating mass, and compression braking provided by the engine. So then they added the exhaust brake to the engines turbo in order to make the engine provide more engine braking.
BUT you only need it when towing!!, or your going down that huge grade in the mountains and don't want to ride your brakes while not towing. But here in TX that is not much terrain that provides the need for grade braking.
When towing on flat land, the exhaust brake just adds to the abundant braking that our vehicles possess, and allows you to brake in shorter distances in emergencies. So save some wear and tear on your transmission and don't use the exhaust brake for every day driving. You don't need it for towing your bass boat either. But as mentioned in some of the replies above, give it a work out every 1000 miles just to keep it exercised. and no exhaust brakes do not clean your turbo. pulling 12K loads and driving your EGT's up into the 1000F range burns any carbon off the inducer wheel of the turbo, not 150F air being pumped by the motor when it's being used as an exhaust brake.
And most (not all), know less about any given vehicle than what you find in the owners manual. Would this also apply to a manual transmission? I drive with my brake on 24/7. 120,000+ miles and the original break pads still in great condition. My clutch is now slipping. (see a post I made on what clutch to buy) I've pointed the finger at the reverse gear being to high. I think Dodge did a really crummy job on the reverse gear with their manual transmission. Way way too high of a gear in my opinion. I put it in 4wd low many times when backing up while a load is attached.
Holzer My pic is gone
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Re: 6.7 Cummins-Exhaust Brake everyday driving
[Re: Dmaxdriver]
#12152711
03/22/17 02:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,490
redchevy
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,490 |
when using the exhaust brake, what component is stressed the most....... Answer is the engine & transmission (and it's clutches). I can only assume that this added stress/heat from the engine brake is inconsequential when compared to the stresses the engine and transmission undergo even under light or moderate acceleration without a load.
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