Woo! Sort of pedantic, I know!

But, I went through a thought process just thinking about rod selection, not only for shooting docks but other applications, too. I really think the bass guys have it dialed in all wrong regarding rod selection for punching mats. They choose really long stiff rods, the manufacturers oblige them wanting to sell more expensive rods . . . and off it goes in the wrong direction.

I'm up to about a dozen math-related solutions (or answers) to common fishing problems or questions.

Brad

I'm picking up what you are putting down, Brad. Longer lever + springy nylon or braid with nylon leader + hook set initial shock having more blank to travel to share the shock load with the line > shorter shock absorber in some applications. Particularly pitching and/or float 'n fly presentations. I like a shorter rod for straight vertical presentations like vertical jigging or pin point drop shotting, but when you pitch and/or casting a float, when you go to set the hook with a shorter rod the line is going to move more horizontal on the initial hook set than vertical. This typically ends up in a worse hook up percentage. The longer, stiffer rod isn't necessarily to do the heavy lifting; there's winch reels and strong braid for that. The point why I use them in these situations is because my hook up percentage was down on shorter bass pitching rods and for pitching and casting float rigs. Not to mention the better precision and control when I'm pitching for bass or panfish.

Long story short; I use a longer rod in these situations to get better, more sure hook penetration rather than winching or pulling power. Especially when sometimes the fish is holding the hook flat between it's lips rather than in an optimal hooking position. Not too important for panfish since their mouths aren't super strong and the hooks are fairly thin to allow movement and thinner diameter hooks penetrate easier, but bass are notorious for clamping down on a soft plastic and hook in a flat position so it is much tougher to turn that hook in its mouth with out pulling it out all together. Angle and length definitely help here.

Also, while shorter levers have more power, the advantage I tend to gravitate toward is the longer levers because they move the object more easily. Think about a carpenter's claw hammer pulling a 16d nail compared to a crowbar. It's the main reason we get breaker bars. Now, with the hammer the fulcrum is a lot less likely to move up the lever like it can with the crowbar or a longer rod, and you will have to move the longer lever a longer distance to get the same result, but the force to move the same mass should not be nearly as much from the source. One small kid can lift three small kids with a long enough and strong enough lever.

jagg,

Yes. My calcs were load on line related to, say, static loads and not related to angles for hook sets. So, those little diagrams illustrate that, friction aside, it is easier to pull a load up an angled surface than from straight down where the full brunt of the weight (or resistance) is felt.

I think you are correct on hooksets, the intial tug we make, that a higher angle (from a longer rod creating a more acute angle) might make a hook more likely to snag in a fish's mouth, from the angle but not the force.

I need to add this into my thought process depending on what fishing presentation I am using. It would add no value fishing vertically then change as the angles do.

Yes, again, to parts of your tool analogy, too. With one exception that I think is often overlooked. A rod isn't a lever in the sense a hammer or crowbar is; it is the opposite. The leverage advantage in a rod . . . belongs to the fish. How? He is on the long side of the lever farthest away from the fulcrum; we are on the short side. He is the carpenter lifting up or pushing down on the handle; we are the nail.

I think fish may have been consulting with rod manufacturers to improve their odds!

Brad

Hey! I just thought of what an engineer's rod would look like if he was optimizing leverage in favor of the fisherman, not the fish.

It would look like a shovel. So, the rear butt of the rod would be far back, one hand back there, and our forward hand would be the fulcrum . . . and then a shorter span to the shovel's blade.

I'll see if I can contact Dobyns or St. Croix and see if they are interested in building a real lever for fishing!!!

Brad

Commercial hook and line fisherman use basically the same rig you described. The differences are commercial fishermen are always playing for keeps. Find fish on sonar or rig the rods for trolling; if spot fishing, drop bait vertically down to fish depth; wait till fish swallows bait and set hook; crank fish to the surface for the gaff man ASAP so it doesn't come off.

The longer rods of today are more for sport and certain presentations than filling up coolers. I don't think that every rod out there that is long needs to be as long as it is to be effective, but I also know that Peter's short topwater rod might not be the right topwater rod for Paul. Some of the newer rod and rod design is based on fads, no doubt. But, a lot of the rod manufacturers like a St Croix, Falcon, Duckett, TFO, G LOOMIS, Ugly Stik, etc.. have been doing this for a while and it comes from a lot of experienced anglers that they sell what anglers want and what works, not what the companies want to sell.

Case in point, St Croix sells a specific rod that Northern bass anglers have been using for a long time now. This particular rod has gone thru many generations and changes. Some of the changes are to address needs the needs of their customers/anglers; others are due to changes in the water/environment like the zebra mussels making a lot of Northern waters exceptionally clear. The bones of the rod now are 6'3", 6'9" or 7'6" ML power XF action. This rod was and still is a popular rod for jig worming, hair jigs, small-ish grubs and tubes. A lot of the "jig worms" nowadays are heavier Shakey Worms and not like yesteryear's Slider Worms so it tends to fish the latter better than the former. Now a lot of guys tend to try to make what they have work or try other rods, but if you have any of the above tactics in your go to bag you will eventually get a rod like the above from SC or another reputable rod maker.

A rod on the other end of the spectrum is the elusive "topwater rod". It's tough to make a rod for topwaters because there are so many topwaters. Not only that, but everybody fishes topwaters differently. Plus a lot of guys and gals put the action to their lure by pointing the rod tip to the water so the ideal length of the rod is dependent on the angler's actual height. Not to mention the fact that different topwater guys like different actions/power for their rods. TX inshore guys have traditionally been ML/F or even L/F guys while TX bass guys range from M/M rods to MH/XF. And this is all for trebled lures. Weedless frogs, rats and etc call for a whole other discussion.

Bottom line, the rods we mainly use today are designed with delivery and presentation in mind. Not winching power. A lot of the off shore two hand spread guys are using 5 oz or better for weight straight down so delivery is taken care of. The bait and presentation doesn't involve a lot of finesse so that isn't a big concern in the blank. They may not know if they are gonna have a 10 pound grouper or an 80 pound grouper on the end of the line, so they have to have serious beef sticks built for power, winching and pumping so they know the rods have to be built for brute strength, a little flex in the top third for runs and to protect 100 lb test.

BTW, as someone who has shipped rods to others and has had rods shipped to me and has talked to guys in the rod manufacturing trade, it's an expensive pain in the butt to ship longer rods compared to shorter rods. Shipping rods around 6'3" and shorter is a breeze and relatively cheap to ship and check for baggage. Not so for the longer rods. And that is often cited as a deterrent for guys new to buying some of the better or just different rods. My cousin waited 2 years before he pulled the trigger on his now favorite Croaker Smoker because he kept telling himself how made he would be if he opened the package and his rod was anything but perfect. Legit concern.

I flunked Algebra in high school but by trial and error found this rod to work well for me.
Lews Wall Marshall medium light moderate 1/32 - 1/4 $39.99
http://m.dickssportinggoods.com/p/lews-w...rod?&color=

$39.99 that's the basic mathematics A simpleton like me can comprehend