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Re: My Thoughts On Bowfishing And The Conservation Of Alligator Gar [Re: grout-scout] #12040875 01/15/17 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted By: grout-scout
All this killing, for all these years and they still aren't close to being extinct. Such tragedy...


From NWFS

Alligator gar historically inhabited waters and tributaries throughout the Mississippi River Valley from Ohio to Illinois and downstream into the estuary waters of the Gulf of Mexico. They may have even existed as far north as Iowa and as far west as Kansas and Nebraska. Currently known populations exist only in the lower Mississippi River Valley from Oklahoma to the west, Arkansas to the north, Texas and portions of Mexico to the south, and east to Florida.


In addition to a diminished range, their numbers have also substantially decreased over the past 50 years. Alligator gar were once abundant in many watersheds but are now difficult to find. They were considered in some places a highly sought after sportfish, but mostly they were considered a "trash fish" and were targeted for eradication or control. Historical pictures, accounts, and fishermen all support the substantial decline of the species. Studies in Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana have shown that the alligator gar is very susceptible to overfishing. It has been classified as rare in Missouri, threatened in Illinois, and endangered in Arkansas, Kentucky, and is soon to be in Tennessee. The alligator gars, along with other gar, are important to their ecosystem in order to maintain the ecological balance.

Re: My Thoughts On Bowfishing And The Conservation Of Alligator Gar [Re: Uncle Zeek] #12049000 01/19/17 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted By: Uncle Zeek
Originally Posted By: grout-scout
All this killing, for all these years and they still aren't close to being extinct. Such tragedy...


Hey, sure, let's annihilate a particular species until it's too late. Seen a dodo bird lately? How about passenger pigeon? Add the West African black rhino, the sea mink, the Caribbean monk seal, and the Tasmanian tiger to that list.

How many Gulf sturgeon do you see being caught along the gulf coast or east coast? Seen the thriving halibut fishery off the coast of Maine? Halibut used to be abundant there until they were fished to the brink of extinction. Ever heard of the Chinese paddlefish? You're not likely to since it appears to have been killed off. Try finding cutthroat trout in most of their native range from a mere 100 years ago. Sure, you can find them in some places, but not in the numbers and places they use to exist. Want to catch a giant tortuava in the Sea of Cortez? You better do it now while there's still a few left, surely since they still get caught, they're not close to being extinct.

The standard you propose is shortsighted and foolish, yet quite a few people have chimed in on this thread with similar thoughts (please understand I'm not singling you out - this is for everyone). Sure, let's systematically exterminate a huge fish everywhere we see it because we think it's ugly. And as long as there's still some around, then surely they're not in danger of extinction, right?

I wonder about the person who ate the last dodo bird - how did it taste?

We're fishermen. ALL of us - we're supposed to be concerned enough about our natural resources to CONSERVE them, so that we can keep on catching and enjoying fish of all kinds. More importantly, we should all want our children, grandchildren, and so on to have the same opportunities. Can't do that if we allow magnificent species to be wiped out.


+1

Re: My Thoughts On Bowfishing And The Conservation Of Alligator Gar [Re: SharkBaitTV] #12049111 01/19/17 06:50 PM
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i couldn't have said it better.


"Conservation is the preservation of life on earth, and that, above all else, is worth fighting for."
Re: My Thoughts On Bowfishing And The Conservation Of Alligator Gar [Re: SharkBaitTV] #12055664 01/23/17 06:03 PM
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Well Said!

Re: My Thoughts On Bowfishing And The Conservation Of Alligator Gar [Re: SharkBaitTV] #12056678 01/24/17 02:52 AM
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Are they extinct yet? Can someone let me know when they are put on the endangered species list? Do gar spread zebra mussels, if yes, we def need to eradicate them.

Re: My Thoughts On Bowfishing And The Conservation Of Alligator Gar [Re: SharkBaitTV] #12056771 01/24/17 03:51 AM
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Gar don't spread Zebra Mussels, but carp apparently eat them....maybe we should put a limit on how many carp you can shoot.


Predation on zebra mussels (Dreissena polymorpha)
by common carp (Cyprinus carpio)
John K. Tucker, Frederick A. Cronin, Dirk W. Soergel
Long Term Resources Monitoring Program Pool 26
Illinois Natural History Survey
4134 Alby Street
Alton, Illinois 62002 USA
and
Charles H. Theiling
Ecological Specialists, Inc.
114 Algana Ct.
St. Peters, Missouri 63376, USA
ABSTRACT
We examined the gut contents of 31 common carp (Cyprinus
carpio) collected at Mississippi River Mile 217 in August 1995
for evidence of predation on zebra mussels (Dreissena
polymorpha). We found between 1 and 407 zebra mussel
beaks in 83.9% of the fish we examined. For all fish examined,
common carp contained 118.2 beaks per fish or about 59 zebra
mussels per fish. The survey did not indicate that larger fish
consumed more zebra mussels than smaller fish. Estimated
valve length for zebra mussels consumed ranged from 1.48 to
42.52 mm with a mean 11.79 mm (SE = 0.10 mm). We found
that larger fish tended to prey on larger zebra mussels than did
smaller fish. The general size range of zebra mussels
consumed by common carp overlapped the upper portion of the
size range of young-of-the-year zebra mussels living at the site
and the lower portion of the size range of older zebra mussels
living at the site.

Last edited by slimjim; 01/24/17 04:36 AM.
Re: My Thoughts On Bowfishing And The Conservation Of Alligator Gar [Re: SharkBaitTV] #12058463 01/25/17 03:46 AM
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Well, there you go! An answer to get rid of the zebra mussels, kill the gar and restock them with carp and maybe throw in a few of those jumping Asian carp too.

Re: My Thoughts On Bowfishing And The Conservation Of Alligator Gar [Re: SharkBaitTV] #12058574 01/25/17 05:28 AM
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Was taught as a child: "don't kill what you don't plan to eat".

Re: My Thoughts On Bowfishing And The Conservation Of Alligator Gar [Re: SharkBaitTV] #12060431 01/26/17 06:56 AM
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All this talk about gator gar has me itching to go bowfishing...

Re: My Thoughts On Bowfishing And The Conservation Of Alligator Gar [Re: SharkBaitTV] #12060541 01/26/17 12:47 PM
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the age of killing native species for fun and not eating them is coming to an end more quickly than you realize.

Last edited by SharkBaitTV; 01/26/17 12:47 PM.

"Conservation is the preservation of life on earth, and that, above all else, is worth fighting for."
Re: My Thoughts On Bowfishing And The Conservation Of Alligator Gar [Re: grout-scout] #12069752 01/31/17 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted By: grout-scout
Are they extinct yet? Can someone let me know when they are put on the endangered species list? Do gar spread zebra mussels, if yes, we def need to eradicate them.


NO they are not extinct in Texas or the US as a whole. If you read you will learn that they have been made extinct or very rare in a lot of States that they are native to.

Do you advocate continuing to kill them for nothing more than the "fun" of it until they gone here also?

Re: My Thoughts On Bowfishing And The Conservation Of Alligator Gar [Re: DaleR] #12070206 02/01/17 01:48 AM
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Originally Posted By: DaleR
Originally Posted By: grout-scout
Are they extinct yet? Can someone let me know when they are put on the endangered species list? Do gar spread zebra mussels, if yes, we def need to eradicate them.


NO they are not extinct in Texas or the US as a whole. If you read you will learn that they have been made extinct or very rare in a lot of States that they are native to.

Do you advocate continuing to kill them for nothing more than the "fun" of it until they gone here also?



Sure, whatever. I don't kill them at all because I don't bow fish, nor do I fish for them like some of the garmasters in this thread. It's just enjoyable to read the boohoo post here, so let them live, let them die. No concern to me, they seem to be quite plentiful in South Texas, maybe you fish huggers need to do a study on why they are thriving in the warmer regions of the state. Seems like a simple answer to me.

Re: My Thoughts On Bowfishing And The Conservation Of Alligator Gar [Re: SharkBaitTV] #12072254 02/02/17 06:33 AM
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You have you special bag limits on Falcon and judging from your previous posts that's where you spend most of your time. Maybe you can start a thread on alligator gar on Falcon. That might very well merit discussion. Meanwhile a good portion of the rest of the state and certainly the country would seem to have legitimate concerns. As a sportsmen I find your statement that you "enjoy" reading about the decline of a native species disappointing. I would ask you to think of what kind of example that sets for the younger members on this site.

Re: My Thoughts On Bowfishing And The Conservation Of Alligator Gar [Re: SharkBaitTV] #12072497 02/02/17 02:21 PM
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I'd be willing to bet that the younger generation are the ones doing this killing in the first place.

There's been lots of discussion on Falcon gar, that's what led to the 5 a day limit. Maybe you guys need to figure out why they can breed and grow so fast there, then you can fix the issue where you live.

Re: My Thoughts On Bowfishing And The Conservation Of Alligator Gar [Re: grout-scout] #12072622 02/02/17 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted By: grout-scout
I'd be willing to bet that the younger generation are the ones doing this killing in the first place.

There's been lots of discussion on Falcon gar, that's what led to the 5 a day limit. Maybe you guys need to figure out why they can breed and grow so fast there, then you can fix the issue where you live.


Now I understand.

In particular you seem not care if other native species (especially gar) thrive or die unless it affects the LMB that you fish for on your Lake of choice.

That is fine I have no issue with that it is your right to think and feel that way.

My only issue with that is why not just say that upfront. Why make statements about the alligator gar population as a whole that are not true?

Fact: Studies across the historic range of alligator gar show they in rapid decline or gone altogether in most of that range.

Fact: No studies indicate that alligator gar have any impact on the LMB populations in a reservoir.

Fact: Falcon got an increase in the daily alligator gar limit in spite of the fact that the studies did show that they are the direct cause of the decline in LMB on Lake Falcon.

So tell us has the LMB population on Falcon rebounded? And if it has, was that rebound due to the increase in the gar bag limit? Or was it due to better conditions such as increased water levels in the Lake?

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