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#12022726 - 01/05/17 05:33 PM Leaders?
Smurfs Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 01/31/14
Posts: 2222
Loc: Fort Worth
Cheapest place to buy leaders, what say you?
Thanks
_________________________
Micah 6:8 He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God





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#12022770 - 01/05/17 05:45 PM Re: Leaders? [Re: Smurfs]
MassAction Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 08/22/16
Posts: 70
Cheapest by far... buy mono / fluorocarbon in bulk and tie your own.

Other than that, keep your eye open for closeouts and buy in bulk. Orvis has some on sale now.

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#12022806 - 01/05/17 06:00 PM Re: Leaders? [Re: MassAction]
fshng84 Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 12/04/07
Posts: 2968
Originally Posted By: MassAction
Cheapest by far... buy mono / fluorocarbon in bulk and tie your own.

Other than that, keep your eye open for closeouts and buy in bulk. Orvis has some on sale now.


Agree with MassAction!

Been using this for Trout... 30lbs mono for a 36" butt section, 17lbs mono for an 18" mid section, 12lbs mono for an 18" fwd section, and then 4lbs mono for an 18" tippet. Makes a 7-1/2' leader. If I want it longer will increase each length proportionally to get the overall length wanted.

For Striped Bass on Clousers, 30lbs mono for a 60" butt section and then 17lbs mono for a 48" fwd section... no tippet, just tie the Clouser directly to the 17lbs mono. Comes to 9' and works with a 11' Switch Rod as well as a 9' 5wt Fly Rod.

Knots used - Perfection Loop for the butt end, then Uniknots for the rest... easier to tie than blood knots.

Will use knot-less tapered leader bought on sale; but, mainly in the Spring when the Cottonwood trees start clobbering the local ponds with "cotton" which gravitate to any knot on a leader.





Edited by fshng84 (01/05/17 06:02 PM)

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#12023106 - 01/05/17 08:22 PM Re: Leaders? [Re: Smurfs]
robert hunter Offline
TFF Team Angler

Registered: 06/14/10
Posts: 3639
Happy new year smurfs! If you don't want to go through the trouble of tying a bunch of uni knots. Just get cheap scientific anglers mono tapered leaders at 7 1/2 foot a line class above what you want and add an invisix florocarbon tippet. The mono works great to absorb shock from hook set. Invisix 8lb plus rio floroflex under 8 yes the rio under 8lb is a bit steep but it is the strongest most supple under 8 get to 8lb invisix hands down. 200 not 30 yards for 20$ for invisix. Hands down best heavier floro on the market.
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#12023121 - 01/05/17 08:28 PM Re: Leaders? [Re: Smurfs]
karstopo Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 05/22/16
Posts: 227
Loc: Brazoria County
http://www.sierratradingpost.com/fishing~d~14/

This online site usually has deals on leaders, tippet and butt material.

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#12023816 - 01/06/17 09:05 AM Re: Leaders? [Re: robert hunter]
Smurfs Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 01/31/14
Posts: 2222
Loc: Fort Worth
Originally Posted By: robert hunter
Happy new year smurfs! If you don't want to go through the trouble of tying a bunch of uni knots. Just get cheap scientific anglers mono tapered leaders at 7 1/2 foot a line class above what you want and add an invisix florocarbon tippet. The mono works great to absorb shock from hook set. Invisix 8lb plus rio floroflex under 8 yes the rio under 8lb is a bit steep but it is the strongest most supple under 8 get to 8lb invisix hands down. 200 not 30 yards for 20$ for invisix. Hands down best heavier floro on the market.


Happy New Year Robert! Thank you for the advise, see you soon I'm sure.
_________________________
Micah 6:8 He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God





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#12024005 - 01/06/17 10:33 AM Re: Leaders? [Re: Smurfs]
MtnDew Offline
Pro Angler

Registered: 12/14/11
Posts: 926
Loc: Irving, TX
So being new to fly fishing and using a 5 wt rod to chase sandbass and pond blue gills and trout. What do you guy think about these leaders.

only $0.99 each 2x tapered 7.5' Umpqua Trout Tapered Leader ... I have plenty of 4lb and 8lb floru or mono that I could tie on as a tippet, seems cheap enough to not mess with building my own ?
Umpqua 2x leader

or

They have Scientific anglers leaders for 9' for Trout and another for Bass 2pack for $2.99 in various sizes ... Not sure what would be different in trout vs bass, but since I will be going after sandbass with clousers and pond bass ...was thinking of getting the bass leaders in 10lb or 8lb pack. ?


SA Bass leaders 9'


-thanks, rob
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#12024033 - 01/06/17 10:51 AM Re: Leaders? [Re: Smurfs]
Fly Fishing Fanatic! Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 12/17/09
Posts: 208
Loc: DFW Texas
Trout are the only fish I use tapered leaders on, all other game fish I use fluorocarbon in what ever test I feel will get the job done, I have fought and landed 14 pound large mouth on 10lb floro and stripers up to 12 pounds. Perch and sandies I use either 4,6 or 8lb floro......
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#12024041 - 01/06/17 10:53 AM Re: Leaders? [Re: MtnDew]
MassAction Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 08/22/16
Posts: 70
Originally Posted By: MtnDew
So being new to fly fishing and using a 5 wt rod to chase sandbass and pond blue gills and trout. What do you guy think about these leaders.
only $0.99 each 2x tapered 7.5' Umpqua Trout Tapered Leader ... I have plenty of 4lb and 8lb floru or mono that I could tie on as a tippet, seems cheap enough to not mess with building my own ?
Umpqua 2x leader
or
They have Scientific anglers leaders for 9' for Trout and another for Bass 2pack for $2.99 in various sizes ... Not sure what would be different in trout vs bass, but since I will be going after sandbass with clousers and pond bass ...was thinking of getting the bass leaders in 10lb or 8lb pack. ?

SA Bass leaders 9'

-thanks, rob


Those are both well reputed name brands so you will be fine with either. Bass and sunfish aren't leader shy, so I wouldn't stress too much about it. Go with whatever gets you out there and fishing.

Also remember that pre-packed leaders like that have tippet already attached so you also don't need to add any more tippet unless you start chewing through it by changing flies or want to lengthen your leader because fish are wary (probably won't be an issue with the species you mentioned).

As white bass season approaches, you may consider a sinking leader if you don't have sinking line like the Rio VersiLeader. I bought a couple to play around with before the White Bass run to see if I can get away with it versus running a sinking line.

Good luck out there!

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#12024051 - 01/06/17 11:02 AM Re: Leaders? [Re: Smurfs]
RexW Online   content
Extreme Angler

Registered: 09/24/02
Posts: 2966
Loc: Sherman, TX
Rob, 2x is a little thick (diameter of the leader) and 7.5 ft is a little short for most trout situations. They tend to be more leader shy than most warmwater fish. However, at that price, add a foot or so of lighter tippet and you should be fine. I'd start with the 4 lb line that you already have and see how that works out.

I tend to use 10 lb as my general purpose warmwater leader size. Those 2x leaders are showing to be 10.5lb test. I'd be tempted to just get more of those leaders and use them for both situations. Add some lighter wt tippet for trout and remove the tippet for warmwater fishing.

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#12024222 - 01/06/17 12:14 PM Re: Leaders? [Re: Smurfs]
MtnDew Offline
Pro Angler

Registered: 12/14/11
Posts: 926
Loc: Irving, TX
Thanks all,

MassAction, I like the idea of the sinking leader ... which rate do you use they go from 1.5 ips to 7 ips ?

-rob
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#12025553 - 01/06/17 11:22 PM Re: Leaders? [Re: Smurfs]
RonL Offline
Pro Angler

Registered: 07/09/14
Posts: 558
Loc: W.Texas
I have some RIO 9', 5x I bought at Cabelas but when they run out I have a spool of mono 4-wt and 2-wt and I will start building my own .
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#12025577 - 01/06/17 11:39 PM Re: Leaders? [Re: MtnDew]
MassAction Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 08/22/16
Posts: 70
Originally Posted By: MtnDew
Thanks all,

MassAction, I like the idea of the sinking leader ... which rate do you use they go from 1.5 ips to 7 ips ?

-rob


It really depends on the depth and current of the waster you're trying to fish. I bought a 3 and 7 and will probably play around with them on the Guadalupe next weekend. However, with white bass I've been taught low and slow is the way to go so as long as you're not hanging up on the bottom every cast, get the heaviest one.

Truth be told when the time comes I will likely revert to a traditional sink tip line.

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#12025630 - 01/07/17 02:20 AM Re: Leaders? [Re: MassAction]
robert hunter Offline
TFF Team Angler

Registered: 06/14/10
Posts: 3639
Originally Posted By: MassAction
Originally Posted By: MtnDew
So being new to fly fishing and using a 5 wt rod to chase sandbass and pond blue gills and trout. What do you guy think about these leaders.
only $0.99 each 2x tapered 7.5' Umpqua Trout Tapered Leader ... I have plenty of 4lb and 8lb floru or mono that I could tie on as a tippet, seems cheap enough to not mess with building my own ?
Umpqua 2x leader
or
They have Scientific anglers leaders for 9' for Trout and another for Bass 2pack for $2.99 in various sizes ... Not sure what would be different in trout vs bass, but since I will be going after sandbass with clousers and pond bass ...was thinking of getting the bass leaders in 10lb or 8lb pack. ?

SA Bass leaders 9'

-thanks, rob


Those are both well reputed name brands so you will be fine with either. Bass and sunfish aren't leader shy, so I wouldn't stress too much about it. Go with whatever gets you out there and fishing.

Also remember that pre-packed leaders like that have tippet already attached so you also don't need to add any more tippet unless you start chewing through it by changing flies or want to lengthen your leader because fish are wary (probably won't be an issue with the species you mentioned).

As white bass season approaches, you may consider a sinking leader if you don't have sinking line like the Rio VersiLeader. I bought a couple to play around with before the White Bass run to see if I can get away with it versus running a sinking line.

Good luck out there!
yes there is a tippet running section on those pre packaged leaders. But I normally want floro for most species but strait floro leaders tend to break on hard hook sets on the fly(although far superior abrasion resistant with floro)!The stretch of the mono works out perfect. Floro also sinks to help get subsurface flys down(where as mono floats). Yes you can fish drys with the invisibility of floro put some ginks on your fingers and run the line thru them it floats fine. That is why I get 7'6" tapered mono leaders a size heavier than I want. Then I can add a lighter floro tippet to get around 9' for total leader. The mono works as a shock absorber and for those that don't know. floro is almost invisible to the fish under water. I always wonder what kind of bass people are fishing for that say they are not leader shy. Fished tournaments for years,as well as Mexico,falcon,amistad,o.h ivie,Toledo bend at absolut peak. Could go 10 to 1 on a person throwing mono you can use 20lb.invisix floro when they wouldn't hit 12 pound big game mono for the other guy with the exact same presentation. That is why now that I fly most of the time I get short Mono leaders and add a short piece of floro with a double surgeons.
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#12025632 - 01/07/17 02:38 AM Re: Leaders? [Re: Smurfs]
robert hunter Offline
TFF Team Angler

Registered: 06/14/10
Posts: 3639
This guy was definitely not leader shy lmbo[img]http://i1069.photo[URL=http://s1069...3EFAB.jpg[/img]bucket.com/albums/u469/robert_bassman/0A772EB5-9876-405F-AF55-5147ED658A8B.jpg[/IMG][/URL]yes that first one not leader shy the last five I don't think they would have ever even come close to mono of the same weight rated size. From 30 years experience I can go double weight rating with floro than what I am with mono(don't use it at all any more exept leaders)better feel less stretch and better abrasion resistant. That's why I immediately add floro tippet to my monofilament leader. I want the clearest most invisible Line closest to the eye of my hook that I can get away with!my.02
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#12025741 - 01/07/17 07:03 AM Re: Leaders? [Re: Smurfs]
MtnDew Offline
Pro Angler

Registered: 12/14/11
Posts: 926
Loc: Irving, TX
Thanks for the great info guys.
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#12025879 - 01/07/17 08:38 AM Re: Leaders? [Re: Smurfs]
Smurfs Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 01/31/14
Posts: 2222
Loc: Fort Worth
Good stuff Robert!
thumb
_________________________
Micah 6:8 He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God





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#12026061 - 01/07/17 10:41 AM Re: Leaders? [Re: Smurfs]
kaboboom Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 08/31/08
Posts: 119
two more cents...I'm cheap, so I've gotten away from tapered leaders. I suspect the ones on sale may have been around a while. So I've set up a series of large spools in the garage screwed onto a board, used a plastic bottle cap to allow the right tension. These are high enough to be able to get a good idea of section lengths, and as I am right handed, the larger diameters start on the left, the smallest finishing on the right. There are hundreds of different formulas, each depending on the species, the rod weight, line type, and the weight of the fly, but this method at least guarantees taper at a minimal cost. I used to be fairly decent tying bloodknots, but not anymore. A while back, I bought a brass pencil-like tool to tie surgeon's knots, but I lost it on the water. But using this tool showed me a way to tie surgeon's knots that I find a bit more compact, so I use triple surgeon's to make leaders, and I've read these are fine for adding fluoro tippet. The technique is to pinch a loop of the parallel lines between the fingers of the left hand, allowing a couple of inches of tag end on the right which is the larger diameter. You then insert the tip of your right index finger, and twirl the loop three times, pushing the twists into the left hand fingers that made the original loop, then insert the two (right hand) tag ends through the loop. You can then relax to knot to wet and cinch it. My buddies tell me the conventional way to tie surgeon's is too simple to need modification, but I like my way and it's not difficult for me to pass a fly through the loop if that situation occurs, so for midges, I'm adding tippet before I get on the water. As we get old, we get odd.

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#12029016 - 01/09/17 01:12 AM Re: Leaders? [Re: Smurfs]
robert hunter Offline
TFF Team Angler

Registered: 06/14/10
Posts: 3639
Sounds like a good easy modification of the knot I will have to try it. It was stated earlier that you don't have to add tippet because tapered leaders have a few feet of(tippet)yes there are a foot or two of non tapered line at the rated size. That is why I buy the mono leaders one X heavier than what I want and at only 7'6" so I can add my floro a size smaller to maintain the taper and get my leader to +- 9' depending on the situation. I can really set the hook hard the stretch of the mono prevents breakoffs and I get the most wary of all fish to hit with the invisibility of floro. If you have never used it your missing out period. Rio floroflex under 8# and seagar invisix 8#and over can't go wrong! Kaboboom going to have to try your twist on the knot
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#12029272 - 01/09/17 08:41 AM Re: Leaders? [Re: Smurfs]
RonL Offline
Pro Angler

Registered: 07/09/14
Posts: 558
Loc: W.Texas
I been using the Davy Knot . Surprised how well it holds .
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#12029567 - 01/09/17 11:00 AM Re: Leaders? [Re: robert hunter]
winchester44 Offline
Pro Angler

Registered: 03/13/07
Posts: 887
Loc: Fort Worth
This is excellent advice!

Here a couple other points to consider that some may or may not know.
- Mono is less dense and will float or suspend by itself without weight
- Fluro is denser will sink all by itself
- Keeping density in mind for different sections and even combining both materials when tying up various rigs will allow you to experiment to get far more natural drifts, floats, sinks, strips etc. For instance just switching a 7.5 foot mono leader to 100% fluro more than doubled my sink rate on striper rig where I was already using depth charge line and a giant clouser with lead eyes. At the other end of the scale that would be the last thing you would want trying to drift an Elk Hair Caddis through a riffle for that you would likely want 100% mono.

- UV: Fluro is virtually impervious to UV, Mono will degrade significantly. If you keep your spools outside your bag, I would plan on throwing away the Mono at least once a year as you will find its breaking strength has degraded significantly.

-Stretch: Mono historically has had more stretch to it than Fluro. The newer stuff claims to have less. There are times when this is a good thing. It might just make the difference on that fish of a lifetime you caught on 6X breaking off or not. On the other hand there are times you need to feel every little bump. I've seen hookup rates triple for lazy sand bass when switching from mono for fluro as the sensitiviy and hook set was vastly improved.

I personally resisted tying my own leaders up until about 3 years ago as I thought what little free time I had was better spent fishing. Then a a guy who literally has a Gulfstream sat me down and showed me how to stop wasting money on store bought leaders. With just a little practice you can knock out a few while your buddies are still pulling on waders. Now I think back on all the countless last minute trips I found when I ran out, trips ending when I broke off my last one, breaking off good fish on leaders left on way too long etc. That was the real waste of time. Again, the experimentation really is interesting you won't believe the difference it can make in the action of your fly.



Edited by winchester44 (01/09/17 11:24 AM)

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#12032011 - 01/10/17 01:22 PM Re: Leaders? [Re: Smurfs]
MtnDew Offline
Pro Angler

Registered: 12/14/11
Posts: 926
Loc: Irving, TX
Hi winchester44

What is your preferred formula for a hand made leader for throwing clousers to sandbass and small striper on a 5/6 wt ?

-rob
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#12032436 - 01/10/17 06:06 PM Re: Leaders? [Re: MtnDew]
winchester44 Offline
Pro Angler

Registered: 03/13/07
Posts: 887
Loc: Fort Worth
Originally Posted By: MtnDew
Hi winchester44

What is your preferred formula for a hand made leader for throwing clousers to sandbass and small striper on a 5/6 wt ?

-rob


There is definitely not a perfect formula for this! Experimentation is the beauty of it. I'll try and give you what I might try first. If we are talking about the creek sand bass spawning runs you are likely looking at fish between 5 and 15 feet down and likely will want a nice uniform sink. However, again that might not be where they are For instance last weekend They were almost on the surface and no depth was required, but I digress.

For the spring spawn run my go to is 5wt Sink Tip line matched with a sparsely tied white or white/chart clouser. 2nd Favorite is a mylar minnow.

I'm likely to tie up a 3 part 9 foot leader of 100% Fluoro starting with 5' of 30 lb down to 2' of 15lb and finishing with 2' at 8lb. 60% butt/20% mid /20% tippet is usually a good starting point, but again you can experiment. If anything I like to heavier on the butt section to get plenty of help turning the fly over. With just a few sessions you will get extremely good at gauging how much to pull off the spool to allow for the amount the knot and tags you clip. I did start with a yard stick with a binder clip screwed to one end and a screw in the other to wrap the other end for sections longer than 36". However, after 3 or 4 sessions, this is now collecting dust.

As far as varying that, I might tie a longer one up to about 12' total to get more depth, I might tie a lighter tippet section if the water is extremely clear (leaders are usually not a problem for sandies and the occasional striper can often be found with them that time of year). I might tie a heavier and/or longer butt section if I'm in tight quarters surrounded by brush and need to do a lot of roll casting.

Another variation would be to switch the tippet section to mono. It's a little tough to describe, but that will totally change the action of the fly on the retrieve as it will not sink as fast as the fly. It will add additional vertical movement, perhaps mimicking a previously wounded bait fish.

I'll leave knots to others as there is no end to that debate......LOL

Anyhow, I hope what came through is that there is no perfect formula, but once you start to understand how important the leader is and how changes to it affect things, it becomes just another tool in the tool kit.


Edited by winchester44 (01/10/17 06:07 PM)

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#12033327 - 01/11/17 07:46 AM Re: Leaders? [Re: Smurfs]
MtnDew Offline
Pro Angler

Registered: 12/14/11
Posts: 926
Loc: Irving, TX
Thanks Winchester44

I was just looking for a starting place and really appreciate everyone's input.

-rob
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#12034125 - 01/11/17 02:50 PM Re: Leaders? [Re: MtnDew]
Smurfs Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 01/31/14
Posts: 2222
Loc: Fort Worth
Originally Posted By: MtnDew
Thanks Winchester44

I was just looking for a starting place and really appreciate everyone's input.

-rob


You stole my thread! LoL
bolt
_________________________
Micah 6:8 He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God





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