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#12025741 - 01/07/17 07:03 AM Re: Leaders? [Re: Smurfs]
MtnDew Offline
Pro Angler

Registered: 12/14/11
Posts: 926
Loc: Irving, TX
Thanks for the great info guys.
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#12025879 - 01/07/17 08:38 AM Re: Leaders? [Re: Smurfs]
Smurfs Online   content
Extreme Angler

Registered: 01/31/14
Posts: 2459
Loc: Fort Worth
Good stuff Robert!
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_________________________
Micah 6:8 He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God





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#12026061 - 01/07/17 10:41 AM Re: Leaders? [Re: Smurfs]
kaboboom Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 08/31/08
Posts: 121
two more cents...I'm cheap, so I've gotten away from tapered leaders. I suspect the ones on sale may have been around a while. So I've set up a series of large spools in the garage screwed onto a board, used a plastic bottle cap to allow the right tension. These are high enough to be able to get a good idea of section lengths, and as I am right handed, the larger diameters start on the left, the smallest finishing on the right. There are hundreds of different formulas, each depending on the species, the rod weight, line type, and the weight of the fly, but this method at least guarantees taper at a minimal cost. I used to be fairly decent tying bloodknots, but not anymore. A while back, I bought a brass pencil-like tool to tie surgeon's knots, but I lost it on the water. But using this tool showed me a way to tie surgeon's knots that I find a bit more compact, so I use triple surgeon's to make leaders, and I've read these are fine for adding fluoro tippet. The technique is to pinch a loop of the parallel lines between the fingers of the left hand, allowing a couple of inches of tag end on the right which is the larger diameter. You then insert the tip of your right index finger, and twirl the loop three times, pushing the twists into the left hand fingers that made the original loop, then insert the two (right hand) tag ends through the loop. You can then relax to knot to wet and cinch it. My buddies tell me the conventional way to tie surgeon's is too simple to need modification, but I like my way and it's not difficult for me to pass a fly through the loop if that situation occurs, so for midges, I'm adding tippet before I get on the water. As we get old, we get odd.

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#12029016 - 01/09/17 01:12 AM Re: Leaders? [Re: Smurfs]
robert hunter Offline
TFF Team Angler

Registered: 06/14/10
Posts: 3723
Sounds like a good easy modification of the knot I will have to try it. It was stated earlier that you don't have to add tippet because tapered leaders have a few feet of(tippet)yes there are a foot or two of non tapered line at the rated size. That is why I buy the mono leaders one X heavier than what I want and at only 7'6" so I can add my floro a size smaller to maintain the taper and get my leader to +- 9' depending on the situation. I can really set the hook hard the stretch of the mono prevents breakoffs and I get the most wary of all fish to hit with the invisibility of floro. If you have never used it your missing out period. Rio floroflex under 8# and seagar invisix 8#and over can't go wrong! Kaboboom going to have to try your twist on the knot
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#12029272 - 01/09/17 08:41 AM Re: Leaders? [Re: Smurfs]
RonL Offline
Pro Angler

Registered: 07/09/14
Posts: 590
Loc: W.Texas
I been using the Davy Knot . Surprised how well it holds .
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#12029567 - 01/09/17 11:00 AM Re: Leaders? [Re: robert hunter]
winchester44 Offline
Pro Angler

Registered: 03/13/07
Posts: 887
Loc: Fort Worth
This is excellent advice!

Here a couple other points to consider that some may or may not know.
- Mono is less dense and will float or suspend by itself without weight
- Fluro is denser will sink all by itself
- Keeping density in mind for different sections and even combining both materials when tying up various rigs will allow you to experiment to get far more natural drifts, floats, sinks, strips etc. For instance just switching a 7.5 foot mono leader to 100% fluro more than doubled my sink rate on striper rig where I was already using depth charge line and a giant clouser with lead eyes. At the other end of the scale that would be the last thing you would want trying to drift an Elk Hair Caddis through a riffle for that you would likely want 100% mono.

- UV: Fluro is virtually impervious to UV, Mono will degrade significantly. If you keep your spools outside your bag, I would plan on throwing away the Mono at least once a year as you will find its breaking strength has degraded significantly.

-Stretch: Mono historically has had more stretch to it than Fluro. The newer stuff claims to have less. There are times when this is a good thing. It might just make the difference on that fish of a lifetime you caught on 6X breaking off or not. On the other hand there are times you need to feel every little bump. I've seen hookup rates triple for lazy sand bass when switching from mono for fluro as the sensitiviy and hook set was vastly improved.

I personally resisted tying my own leaders up until about 3 years ago as I thought what little free time I had was better spent fishing. Then a a guy who literally has a Gulfstream sat me down and showed me how to stop wasting money on store bought leaders. With just a little practice you can knock out a few while your buddies are still pulling on waders. Now I think back on all the countless last minute trips I found when I ran out, trips ending when I broke off my last one, breaking off good fish on leaders left on way too long etc. That was the real waste of time. Again, the experimentation really is interesting you won't believe the difference it can make in the action of your fly.



Edited by winchester44 (01/09/17 11:24 AM)

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#12032011 - 01/10/17 01:22 PM Re: Leaders? [Re: Smurfs]
MtnDew Offline
Pro Angler

Registered: 12/14/11
Posts: 926
Loc: Irving, TX
Hi winchester44

What is your preferred formula for a hand made leader for throwing clousers to sandbass and small striper on a 5/6 wt ?

-rob
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#12032436 - 01/10/17 06:06 PM Re: Leaders? [Re: MtnDew]
winchester44 Offline
Pro Angler

Registered: 03/13/07
Posts: 887
Loc: Fort Worth
Originally Posted By: MtnDew
Hi winchester44

What is your preferred formula for a hand made leader for throwing clousers to sandbass and small striper on a 5/6 wt ?

-rob


There is definitely not a perfect formula for this! Experimentation is the beauty of it. I'll try and give you what I might try first. If we are talking about the creek sand bass spawning runs you are likely looking at fish between 5 and 15 feet down and likely will want a nice uniform sink. However, again that might not be where they are For instance last weekend They were almost on the surface and no depth was required, but I digress.

For the spring spawn run my go to is 5wt Sink Tip line matched with a sparsely tied white or white/chart clouser. 2nd Favorite is a mylar minnow.

I'm likely to tie up a 3 part 9 foot leader of 100% Fluoro starting with 5' of 30 lb down to 2' of 15lb and finishing with 2' at 8lb. 60% butt/20% mid /20% tippet is usually a good starting point, but again you can experiment. If anything I like to heavier on the butt section to get plenty of help turning the fly over. With just a few sessions you will get extremely good at gauging how much to pull off the spool to allow for the amount the knot and tags you clip. I did start with a yard stick with a binder clip screwed to one end and a screw in the other to wrap the other end for sections longer than 36". However, after 3 or 4 sessions, this is now collecting dust.

As far as varying that, I might tie a longer one up to about 12' total to get more depth, I might tie a lighter tippet section if the water is extremely clear (leaders are usually not a problem for sandies and the occasional striper can often be found with them that time of year). I might tie a heavier and/or longer butt section if I'm in tight quarters surrounded by brush and need to do a lot of roll casting.

Another variation would be to switch the tippet section to mono. It's a little tough to describe, but that will totally change the action of the fly on the retrieve as it will not sink as fast as the fly. It will add additional vertical movement, perhaps mimicking a previously wounded bait fish.

I'll leave knots to others as there is no end to that debate......LOL

Anyhow, I hope what came through is that there is no perfect formula, but once you start to understand how important the leader is and how changes to it affect things, it becomes just another tool in the tool kit.


Edited by winchester44 (01/10/17 06:07 PM)

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#12033327 - 01/11/17 07:46 AM Re: Leaders? [Re: Smurfs]
MtnDew Offline
Pro Angler

Registered: 12/14/11
Posts: 926
Loc: Irving, TX
Thanks Winchester44

I was just looking for a starting place and really appreciate everyone's input.

-rob
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Rob smile

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#12034125 - 01/11/17 02:50 PM Re: Leaders? [Re: MtnDew]
Smurfs Online   content
Extreme Angler

Registered: 01/31/14
Posts: 2459
Loc: Fort Worth
Originally Posted By: MtnDew
Thanks Winchester44

I was just looking for a starting place and really appreciate everyone's input.

-rob


You stole my thread! LoL
bolt
_________________________
Micah 6:8 He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God





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