Main Menu
Advertisement
Affiliates
Advertisement
Newest Members
Kslw, Farndog361, WYOYYZ, PondChamp, Justin, Texas
105177 Registered Users
Top Posters
TexDawg 85237
hopalong 77715
Pilothawk 74810
JDavis7873® 67382
John175 ® 63781
FattyMcButterpants 60667
Derek 🐝 57790
Tritonman 57476
SkeeterRonnie 52918
LoneStarSon® 52909
facebook
Forum Stats
105177 Members
60 Forums
845149 Topics
12050446 Posts

Max Online: 36273 @ 01/23/13 02:34 PM
Page 5 of 7 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 >
Topic Options
#12015780 - 01/02/17 09:38 AM Re: My Thoughts On Bowfishing And The Conservation Of Alligator Gar [Re: SharkBaitTV]
winchester44 Offline
Pro Angler

Registered: 03/13/07
Posts: 887
Loc: Fort Worth
FROM THE US FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE:


The alligator gar is the largest of seven species of gar found in North America, Central America, and Cuba. The largest one on record came from the Rio Grande River in Texas and is an IGFA All-tackle World Record weighing 279 lb 0 oz. However, historic observations and photographs suggest they can attain weights and lengths of up to 350 lbs. and 10 feet in length. This species, the largest in the Mississippi River Valley, once had a range that spread across most large river systems and tributaries from the Gulf of Mexico states of the U.S. and Mexico upstream into the Ohio River Valley.....Recent surveys suggest populations are far below historic levels and could be declining further. In some northern states, they are believed to have been extirpated or reduced in number to non-viable populations requiring reintroductions through stockings in some locations. For these reasons they have been identified as an imperiled species by the American Fisheries Society and a focal species of the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service. Numerous states have already or are in the process of increasing conservation and management through regulations, habitat restoration, and stocking.....They are one of the largest freshwater fishes in North America, are the largest in the Lepisosteid family, and are the largest freshwater fish in the Mississippi River Valley and the apex predator in the system. Alligator gar historically inhabited waters and tributaries throughout the Mississippi River Valley from Ohio to Illinois and downstream into the estuary waters of the Gulf of Mexico. They may have even existed as far north as Iowa and as far west as Kansas and Nebraska. Currently known populations exist only in the lower Mississippi River Valley from Oklahoma to the west, Arkansas to the north, Texas and portions of Mexico to the south, and east to Florida. In addition to a diminished range, their numbers have also substantially decreased over the past 50 years. Alligator gar were once abundant in many watersheds but are now difficult to find. There are many reasons being considered for their decline including habitat loss resulting from navigation and flood control alteration of streams and flood plains to over-harvesting. They were considered in some places a highly sought after sportfish, but mostly they were considered a "trash fish" and were targeted for eradication or control. Historical pictures, accounts, and fishermen all support the substantial decline of the species. Studies in Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana have shown that the alligator gar is very susceptible to overfishing. It has been classified as rare in Missouri, threatened in Illinois, and endangered in Arkansas, Kentucky, and is soon to be in Tennessee. The alligator gars, along with other gar, are important to their ecosystem in order to maintain the ecological balance.

Top
#12015797 - 01/02/17 09:49 AM Re: My Thoughts On Bowfishing And The Conservation Of Alligator Gar [Re: grout-scout]
winchester44 Offline
Pro Angler

Registered: 03/13/07
Posts: 887
Loc: Fort Worth
Originally Posted By: grout-scout
How many more laws do you want for gar, they already have a special season and 1 per day limit on most lakes. Maybe you can get them on the endangered species list? If you want them conserved then you need to talk to your gamewarden.

I don't think you're going to change any of the poachers ways, unless you turn them in for law breaking.


There is no "special season" statewide

-There is no fishing in May in the National Wildlife Refuge on Texoma to protect spawning fish
-TPW has the power to close certain fisheries during spawning conditions (flooding) In the last 3 years, this has happened once on one section of the Trinity for 30 days.

It's wide open 365 days a year everywhere else. One fish per day, except falcon where you can possess 10.

Here is the phone number to report poaching: 800 792-GAME (4263) They will pay cash rewards up to $1,000 to report poaching.



Edited by winchester44 (01/02/17 09:50 AM)

Top
#12015818 - 01/02/17 10:04 AM Re: My Thoughts On Bowfishing And The Conservation Of Alligator Gar [Re: grout-scout]
winchester44 Offline
Pro Angler

Registered: 03/13/07
Posts: 887
Loc: Fort Worth
Originally Posted By: grout-scout
yawn are gar extinct yet? Almost as worthless as turtles.


In most of the their historic range the answer would be yes, they are gone forever, never to be seen in their natural habitat by future generations.

Top
#12016097 - 01/02/17 12:40 PM Re: My Thoughts On Bowfishing And The Conservation Of Alligator Gar [Re: winchester44]
C.M. Online   content
Outdoorsman

Registered: 09/09/16
Posts: 116
Originally Posted By: winchester44
Originally Posted By: grout-scout
yawn are gar extinct yet? Almost as worthless as turtles.


In most of the their historic range the answer would be yes, they are gone forever, never to be seen in their natural habitat by future generations.

This is so sad... :-( What to do? I am almost shaking inside.

There is no way we could reintroduce them back to save future generations from not being able to see them.

Top
#12016554 - 01/02/17 05:25 PM Re: My Thoughts On Bowfishing And The Conservation Of Alligator Gar [Re: SharkBaitTV]
Jimbo Offline
TFF Guru

Registered: 01/18/03
Posts: 15803
Loc: South Texas
If a 250# alligator gar can catch and eat a cormorant I'm all for the gar!
_________________________
Just one more cast!


Top
#12017661 - 01/03/17 09:17 AM Re: My Thoughts On Bowfishing And The Conservation Of Alligator Gar [Re: C.M.]
dmunsie Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 04/27/02
Posts: 1995
Originally Posted By: C.M.
Originally Posted By: winchester44
Originally Posted By: grout-scout
yawn are gar extinct yet? Almost as worthless as turtles.


In most of the their historic range the answer would be yes, they are gone forever, never to be seen in their natural habitat by future generations.

This is so sad... :-( What to do? I am almost shaking inside.

There is no way we could reintroduce them back to save future generations from not being able to see them.


I think this is already being done. But the goal is to save the large 200+ lb fish so they can spawn other large fish. If you remove the genetics of the larger fish that will stun the potential for future generations.
_________________________
http://www.facebook.com/TexasBankFishing

Top
#12018465 - 01/03/17 04:21 PM Re: My Thoughts On Bowfishing And The Conservation Of Alligator Gar [Re: SharkBaitTV]
Twistedmidnite Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 02/24/11
Posts: 166
Loc: Hughes springs, tx


This is a ear otoliths survey from a couple years ago by a "guide" and tpwd. Tpwd agreed that they believe ear otoliths are still not accurate at aging gar. They believe the fish ARE younger than the amount of growth rings in the otoliths.

Top
#12018481 - 01/03/17 04:29 PM Re: My Thoughts On Bowfishing And The Conservation Of Alligator Gar [Re: SharkBaitTV]
Twistedmidnite Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 02/24/11
Posts: 166
Loc: Hughes springs, tx
The gar in the survey came solely from the trinity FROM a guide and bowfishing tournaments. They tests were done by a tpwd biologist. I am a bowfisherman, but with that said...I eat gar, not everyone but some. I eat buffalo also. Carp get tossed. I wish we still had catfish to shoot, that was nice.

Top
#12019034 - 01/03/17 09:32 PM Re: My Thoughts On Bowfishing And The Conservation Of Alligator Gar [Re: dmunsie]
C.M. Online   content
Outdoorsman

Registered: 09/09/16
Posts: 116
Originally Posted By: dmunsie
Originally Posted By: C.M.
There is no way we could reintroduce them back to save future generations from not being able to see them.


I think this is already being done. But the goal is to save the large 200+ lb fish so they can spawn other large fish. If you remove the genetics of the larger fish that will stun the potential for future generations.

I see... And small fish (quite obviously) spawns only small fish

Top
#12026242 - 01/07/17 01:02 PM Re: My Thoughts On Bowfishing And The Conservation Of Alligator Gar [Re: C.M.]
winchester44 Offline
Pro Angler

Registered: 03/13/07
Posts: 887
Loc: Fort Worth
Originally Posted By: C.M.
Originally Posted By: dmunsie
Originally Posted By: C.M.
There is no way we could reintroduce them back to save future generations from not being able to see them.


I think this is already being done. But the goal is to save the large 200+ lb fish so they can spawn other large fish. If you remove the genetics of the larger fish that will stun the potential for future generations.

I see... And small fish (quite obviously) spawns only small fish


They are quite similar to the Paddlefish and the Sturgeon. While growing extremely large, they are long-lived and take a long time to reach sexual maturity. The largest fish are the females which are the most productive spawners. The combination of the slow growth, targeting of the most productive spawners and the infrequency of spawning (requires flooding conditions) makes the populations quite susceptible to over-harvest. There are a range of scientific opinions out there and a relative lack of research, but I think 15% annual harvest is the highest sustainable percentage I've seen.

It's easy to speculate about re-introduction programs if we get it wrong and their range continues to shrink. However, I think most would agree that it would be significantly cheaper to manage the current situation through regulation than the millions in public funds a hatchery program would require. Additionally, once the unique genetic strains that have adapted to thrive in a particular body of water over millennia are gone, they are gone for good.

Top
#12027050 - 01/07/17 11:11 PM Re: My Thoughts On Bowfishing And The Conservation Of Alligator Gar [Re: SharkBaitTV]
C.M. Online   content
Outdoorsman

Registered: 09/09/16
Posts: 116
According to some online sources maturity: 11 years for females and 6 for males. I saw them spawning in 2015 on Trinity in flooded grass -- spawners were about 3' long. Yes, they are quite vulnerable due to their spawning requirements. No, killing big fish is not the end of species. As of now there are plenty of spawn-size gars around. Not saying we shouldn't keep an eye on them, but in terms of conservation there are more important things that require attention.

And, tbh, as long as Texas keep population of crappie/bass/catfish at current levels (and not change environment too dramatically) -- gars (as species) will be fine. Bigger ones will probably suffer (mostly thanks to guides that keep them visible to make some living) -- but this problem heals with time.

Top
#12028837 - 01/08/17 09:31 PM Re: My Thoughts On Bowfishing And The Conservation Of Alligator Gar [Re: C.M.]
winchester44 Offline
Pro Angler

Registered: 03/13/07
Posts: 887
Loc: Fort Worth
Originally Posted By: C.M.
According to some online sources maturity: 11 years for females and 6 for males.
-True, but larger females carry far more roe.

I saw them spawning in 2015 on Trinity in flooded grass -- spawners were about 3' long.
- Females alligator gar do not spawn at that size, likely were small males or another species.
- 2015 was likely the first decent spawn at least 5 years.

Yes, they are quite vulnerable due to their spawning requirements. No, killing big fish is not the end of species.
-Not necessarily, but it does have the most impact.

As of now there are plenty of spawn-size gars around.
-In certain areas, yes, others there are none and most are in between.

Not saying we shouldn't keep an eye on them, but in terms of conservation there are more important things that require attention.
-What species? This is the Apex predator in many systems.

And, tbh, as long as Texas keep population of crappie/bass/catfish at current levels (and not change environment too dramatically) -- gars (as species) will be fine.
-Gar are not species, they are part of the Lepisosteidae family. Are you aware of there are different species?


Bigger ones will probably suffer (mostly thanks to guides that keep them visible to make some living) -- but this problem heals with time.
-Guides want the biggest fish gone?


Top
#12037030 - 01/13/17 03:25 AM Re: My Thoughts On Bowfishing And The Conservation Of Alligator Gar [Re: SharkBaitTV]
feagins28 Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 03/14/14
Posts: 96
It's not just the trinity that people kill gar for no reason. And the problem has been going on for years. I remember as a kid we used to fish this place we called the sandpit near Aubrey off of fish trap. Man some days in the summer it would be so hard to fish for crappie there cause of all the dead gar laying around rotting. Never saw a 7 footer, but there were tons of 4-5s that were killed by bow fishermen. anyone here ever bow Fished? If so what's the thrill in it?

Top
#12038262 - 01/13/17 07:03 PM Re: My Thoughts On Bowfishing And The Conservation Of Alligator Gar [Re: SharkBaitTV]
grout-scout Online   content
TFF Celebrity

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 5950
Loc: Boerne, Texas
All this killing, for all these years and they still aren't close to being extinct. Such tragedy...

Top
#12038842 - 01/14/17 08:41 AM Re: My Thoughts On Bowfishing And The Conservation Of Alligator Gar [Re: grout-scout]
Uncle Zeek Online   content
"Good News, Everyone!"

Registered: 09/26/05
Posts: 18477
Loc: Lewisville
Originally Posted By: grout-scout
All this killing, for all these years and they still aren't close to being extinct. Such tragedy...


Hey, sure, let's annihilate a particular species until it's too late. Seen a dodo bird lately? How about passenger pigeon? Add the West African black rhino, the sea mink, the Caribbean monk seal, and the Tasmanian tiger to that list.

How many Gulf sturgeon do you see being caught along the gulf coast or east coast? Seen the thriving halibut fishery off the coast of Maine? Halibut used to be abundant there until they were fished to the brink of extinction. Ever heard of the Chinese paddlefish? You're not likely to since it appears to have been killed off. Try finding cutthroat trout in most of their native range from a mere 100 years ago. Sure, you can find them in some places, but not in the numbers and places they use to exist. Want to catch a giant tortuava in the Sea of Cortez? You better do it now while there's still a few left, surely since they still get caught, they're not close to being extinct.

The standard you propose is shortsighted and foolish, yet quite a few people have chimed in on this thread with similar thoughts (please understand I'm not singling you out - this is for everyone). Sure, let's systematically exterminate a huge fish everywhere we see it because we think it's ugly. And as long as there's still some around, then surely they're not in danger of extinction, right?

I wonder about the person who ate the last dodo bird - how did it taste?

We're fishermen. ALL of us - we're supposed to be concerned enough about our natural resources to CONSERVE them, so that we can keep on catching and enjoying fish of all kinds. More importantly, we should all want our children, grandchildren, and so on to have the same opportunities. Can't do that if we allow magnificent species to be wiped out.
_________________________

Top
Page 5 of 7 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 >



© 1998-2017 OUTDOOR SITES NETWORK all rights reserved USA and Worldwide