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#11608727 - 05/17/16 04:14 PM Top Predator - Bass or Carp/Buffalo?
Sailfish Offline
Green Horn

Registered: 09/21/13
Posts: 14
Been fishing Lavon and Lewisville, from all appearance it seems like the Carp/Buffalo are King!
Example Lewisville, fished a East side cove one morning. Bait was thick along the shore. Big carp were thrashing into them and did not seem bothered when my boat came close. Hundreds of big, heavy fish mutilating the shad. I was fishing for bass and saw not one swirl or sign of bass near or far from the carp that bait filled cove. Later, out in a channel 30'+ running next to a shoreline I was going deep at the dropoff. Here come the carp attacking on the surface.
Other times at Lavon, same thing. Carp are killing the shad or other baitfish along the shore. Not a bass in sight. And then later they are attacking bait on the surface in deeper water. I worked hours along shoreline and near shore, but scared up a few swirls of bigger bass, that's all I got from the big ones. Yes, caught a few small bass, etc. Frustrating to see hundreds of huge, fat carp attacking bait on the surface, no bass to be seen.
In the battle for food and dominance in the ecosystem it seems like the carp are winning.
The Open Fishing has a current carp thread, "carp are so detrimental to the ecosystem herpes is being used to kill them" which reminded me of my question.
If it is as bad as it appears, it might be nice to legalize commercial fishing and sale of carp to control their population and give bass a chance.
I used to live seasonally at a once famous trout lake. Someone put some goldfish in there and they ate all the trout eggs; the trout vanished.


Edited by Sailfish (05/17/16 04:17 PM)

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#11608823 - 05/17/16 04:55 PM Re: Top Predator - Bass or Carp/Buffalo? [Re: Sailfish]
CoastalBent Offline
Angler

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 389
Loc: Denton
Carp do not prey on shad. The carp you saw thrashing in the shallows were spawning. The ones you saw in the deep water were just jumping for the hell of it. Carp do that. The carp that they're talking about killing with herpes are a different type of carp than the ones you're seeing.

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#11608840 - 05/17/16 05:07 PM Re: Top Predator - Bass or Carp/Buffalo? [Re: Sailfish]
Donald Harper Offline
TFF Guru

Registered: 01/25/08
Posts: 12268
Loc: Justin, TX.
Agreed. A few Shad may get run over in the thrashing and float to the surface. What Carp will do is destroy the Bass nest, sucking the mud, eating vegetation and the Bass eggs in the process.

Edit:
Both Carp and Buffalo are predators in this sense and a big one. Our lakes would be producing many more Bass fingerlings without them there running the banks at basically the same time or shortly there after the spawn has taken place.

They are netted out in Mexico and this is the one big contributing factor for catching numbers and big Bass down south.


Edited by Donald Harper (05/17/16 05:13 PM)
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#11609406 - 05/17/16 10:00 PM Re: Top Predator - Bass or Carp/Buffalo? [Re: Sailfish]
David Burton Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 07/14/11
Posts: 1500
Loc: McKinney, TX
The jumping fish are feeding on flies and insects. They are hatch-oriented feeders. You'll hear tons of them As the sun sets and other main times of the hatch
_________________________
David Burton
2015 Skeeter FX 21


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#11609436 - 05/17/16 10:20 PM Re: Top Predator - Bass or Carp/Buffalo? [Re: Sailfish]
Cheesehead Wes Offline
Pro Angler

Registered: 12/18/10
Posts: 506
Loc: Lubbock Tx
After spending tons of time observing bedding bass this spring I will have a large 10-12" carp Swimbaits tied on next spring. They rarely gave a [censored] about bluegill near the bed but always ran off carp! Anytime I saw a carp swim up to a bed with a bass that wasn't commiting or protecting her bed from my lure, I always knew it was a matter of time before she bit!

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#11609839 - 05/18/16 08:43 AM Re: Top Predator - Bass or Carp/Buffalo? [Re: CoastalBent]
Fishbreeder Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 02/07/10
Posts: 1271
Loc: Brazoria County, Texas
Originally Posted By: CoastalBent
Carp do not prey on shad. The carp you saw thrashing in the shallows were spawning. The ones you saw in the deep water were just jumping for the hell of it. Carp do that. The carp that they're talking about killing with herpes are a different type of carp than the ones you're seeing.


Actually they are the same species. CyHv3 (Cyprinid Herpes virus #3) aka KHV (Koi Herpes Virus) only affects common carp (Cyprinus carpio) which is the ones you see spawning in the shallows this time of year.

They'll eat shad or anything else they get in their mouths, but usually dead or dying ones that were hurt by other predators. They are not an effective fish predator. They feed primarily on insect larvae, snails, worms, and other invertebrates as well as some vegetative matter.

Common carp is the most widely distributed of all freshwater fish species having been the primary farmed fish for over 5000 years. The common carp can be found from inside the Arctic Circle through the Tropics and to the Sub-Antarctic. Some of this is natural range but most of it is introduced range.

The common carp is a part of our local ecology and is well entrenched. Whatever harmful effects were associated with its introduction are now mitigated by nature. A well balanced ecosystem does not get overrun with carp. That happens upon some sort of ecological disturbance (too much weed killer, predator die off or overharvest, flood waters, etc.)

The use of potentially harmful virus' is viewed by most fishery managers and biologists as folly.

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#11610085 - 05/18/16 10:15 AM Re: Top Predator - Bass or Carp/Buffalo? [Re: CoastalBent]
Randy Harrell Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 03/30/10
Posts: 1427
Loc: Winnsboro, Tx
Originally Posted By: CoastalBent
Carp do not prey on shad. The carp you saw thrashing in the shallows were spawning. The ones you saw in the deep water were just jumping for the hell of it. Carp do that. The carp that they're talking about killing with herpes are a different type of carp than the ones you're seeing.


It always cracks me up when they are jumping. My wife always asks "what was that," thinking it may be a bass. I have finally got her trained to listen for the tail slap sound. Does it sound like it is jumping for joy (Carp), or mauling something (Bass).
_________________________
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Winnsboro High School Boat Captain

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#11610106 - 05/18/16 10:22 AM Re: Top Predator - Bass or Carp/Buffalo? [Re: Sailfish]
Bman92 Offline
Green Horn

Registered: 03/24/16
Posts: 14
Have any of you guys ever tried to cook and eat carp? If so how does it taste and how did you cook it?

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#11610164 - 05/18/16 10:37 AM Re: Top Predator - Bass or Carp/Buffalo? [Re: Sailfish]
Donald Harper Offline
TFF Guru

Registered: 01/25/08
Posts: 12268
Loc: Justin, TX.
Pressure cooking it takes care of all the bones. It makes great salad, like tuna salad sandwiches. After pressure cooking it can be canned and stored like most other meats that were done back in the day when Grandmother was doing all the canning.

Once pressure cooked it can also be made into patties like salmon patties and skillet fried with a light coating of flower and corn meal.

No fishy taste at all and is really good if you like tuna fish without the smell then you are in business.
_________________________
Each person you work with holds some promise to your future success.

www.lakeoviachic.com - Booking Mexico Trips
Shallow Water Mapping - Custom Spinner Baits - Jigs -Spooks
Pure Extracts - Minnow-Night Crawler-Crayfish-Craylic



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#11610414 - 05/18/16 12:17 PM Re: Top Predator - Bass or Carp/Buffalo? [Re: Bman92]
Outdoordude Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 04/20/09
Posts: 1961
Originally Posted By: Bman92
Have any of you guys ever tried to cook and eat carp? If so how does it taste and how did you cook it?


I haven't had common carp, but smoked silver carp has a firm texture and good taste. I really liked it.

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#11610482 - 05/18/16 12:44 PM Re: Top Predator - Bass or Carp/Buffalo? [Re: Sailfish]
texas_lunkers Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 12/05/13
Posts: 197
Loc: Eagle Mountain
I hate hate hate carp. Kill them all
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#11610608 - 05/18/16 01:38 PM Re: Top Predator - Bass or Carp/Buffalo? [Re: texas_lunkers]
Brazos Bass Cat Offline
TFF Team Angler

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 3678
Loc: Benbrook/Granbury/Whitney/Stil...
Originally Posted By: texas_lunkers
I hate hate hate carp. Kill them all


yes.
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Team Pro-Cull

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#11611126 - 05/18/16 05:16 PM Re: Top Predator - Bass or Carp/Buffalo? [Re: Sailfish]
Sailfish Offline
Green Horn

Registered: 09/21/13
Posts: 14
Ok, the carp/buffalo had me fooled there. Thanks for setting me straight. What is happening when they seem to be attacking minnows up against the rocks on Lavon dam during the summer?
Interesting article about carp damage: https://www.sciencenews.org/article/archive-carp-eat-other-fish-out
Oklahoma Wildlife Dept says:
Today grass carp can be found in most reservoirs in Oklahoma and reproduction of grass carp has been verified in Lake Texoma by ODWC biologists. Negative impacts on native organisms have been summarized to include: competition for food with invertebrates (i.e., crayfish) and other fishes; significant changes in the composition of aquatic vegetation, phytoplankton, and invertebrate communities; interference with the reproduction of other fishes; modification or elimination of preferred fish habitats; enrichment and eutrophication of lakes; disruption of food webs and trophic structure; and introduction of nonnative parasites and diseases.
Seems like the carp and buffalo are negatively impacting the bass and crappie fishery.
Where do we get 10-12" carp swimbaits?

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#11611244 - 05/18/16 06:25 PM Re: Top Predator - Bass or Carp/Buffalo? [Re: Brazos Bass Cat]
Jake Shannon(Skeet4Life) Offline
TFF Celebrity

Registered: 10/31/10
Posts: 7275
Loc: Tyler, Tx/Arlington, Tx
Originally Posted By: Brazos Bass Cat
Originally Posted By: texas_lunkers
I hate hate hate carp. Kill them all


yes.

Yep

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#11611428 - 05/18/16 08:13 PM Re: Top Predator - Bass or Carp/Buffalo? [Re: Sailfish]
T54 Offline
TFF Team Angler

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 3277
Originally Posted By: Sailfish
Ok, the carp/buffalo had me fooled there. Thanks for setting me straight. What is happening when they seem to be attacking minnows up against the rocks on Lavon dam during the summer?
Interesting article about carp damage: https://www.sciencenews.org/article/archive-carp-eat-other-fish-out
Oklahoma Wildlife Dept says:
Today grass carp can be found in most reservoirs in Oklahoma and reproduction of grass carp has been verified in Lake Texoma by ODWC biologists. Negative impacts on native organisms have been summarized to include: competition for food with invertebrates (i.e., crayfish) and other fishes; significant changes in the composition of aquatic vegetation, phytoplankton, and invertebrate communities; interference with the reproduction of other fishes; modification or elimination of preferred fish habitats; enrichment and eutrophication of lakes; disruption of food webs and trophic structure; and introduction of nonnative parasites and diseases.
Seems like the carp and buffalo are negatively impacting the bass and crappie fishery.
Where do we get 10-12" carp swimbaits?


Grass carp are not the same as common carp. They actually aren't even a true carp. This is commonly misunderstood. For Carp swimbaits, Try a Deps 250 Slide Swimmer in Flash Carp.

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