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Max Online: 36273 @ 01/23/13 02:34 PM
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#11566791 - 04/26/16 01:45 PM Waterway laws
tonyp Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 1671
Loc: mansfield/grand prairie
I can't get responses in kayak fishing, so bass fishers please lend me advice, I want to launch my kayak in a park upstream from Royal oaks golf course, and fish in the creek through the golf course, does anyone know if there is an open and shut law that allows me to do so or would they have a trespassing case??? I believe the creek is white rock creek and I would launch from swan lake park...

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#11566798 - 04/26/16 01:47 PM Re: Waterway laws [Re: tonyp]
David Burton Online   confused
Extreme Angler

Registered: 07/14/11
Posts: 1496
Loc: McKinney, TX
As long as you stay in the creek, don't beach or portage, you are good to go! Any lakes along the way with dams, not so much....
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2015 Skeeter FX 21


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#11566806 - 04/26/16 01:49 PM Re: Waterway laws [Re: tonyp]
David Burton Online   confused
Extreme Angler

Registered: 07/14/11
Posts: 1496
Loc: McKinney, TX
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David Burton
2015 Skeeter FX 21


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#11566829 - 04/26/16 01:56 PM Re: Waterway laws [Re: tonyp]
KCFISH'N Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 07/10/09
Posts: 1445
Loc: Dallas, TX - Mark 1:15
go in at night...less chance of getting hit by a golf ball or getting harassed...I've fished a lot of golf courses at night...walk in to the club house area and pull a score card out of the trash and wallah you have your water hole treasure map...lots of big ol'bass in some of them tanks...LOL
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#11566832 - 04/26/16 01:56 PM Re: Waterway laws [Re: tonyp]
Texan Til I Die Offline
TFF Celebrity

Registered: 05/05/09
Posts: 6224
Loc: Deep in the Heart of Texas
Navigable waterway laws are about as convoluted as it gets, and most authorities that have jurisdiction over trespassing cases are routinely ignorant of the laws. The legal definition of a navigable waterway is so loosely written that it applies to almost every river, creek and stream in the state.

"Under a law dating from 1837, a stream is navigable so far as it retains an average width of 30 feet from its mouth up. The width measured is the distance between the fast (or firmly fixed) land banks. A stream satisfying the 30 foot rule is sometimes referred to as “statutorily navigable” or “navigable by statute.” Under a court decision, the public has rights along a stream navigable by statute just as if the stream were navigable in fact.

The entire bed is to be included in the width, not just the area covered by flowing water. The bed extends all the way between the fast land banks. These are the banks which separate the stream bed from the adjacent upland (whether valley or hill) and confine the waters to a definite channel. Further, stream segments having a width of less than 30 feet do not defeat the stream’s navigability by statute, so long as the stream’s width maintains an average of 30 feet or more."

In other words, if it measures 30 feet on average from bank to bank (and a creek would have to be tiny not to), it meets the legal definition of navigable. With that being said, good luck explaining it to the officer that comes to ticket you for trespassing.
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#11566850 - 04/26/16 02:02 PM Re: Waterway laws [Re: tonyp]
Doug R. Online   content
TFF Celebrity

Registered: 06/11/12
Posts: 8071
Loc: Cell Block C
Dallas doesn't have enough cops left on the streets to even keep real crime at a manageable level. If someone called it would likely be many hours before anyone responds, if they even did respond.
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#11566861 - 04/26/16 02:07 PM Re: Waterway laws [Re: tonyp]
fouzman Online   content
Methuselah

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 43053
Loc: Houston, TX
http://tpwd.texas.gov/publications/nonpw...nnedy_faq.phtml

Q: Some landowners in my county have deeds to the riverbed. Can they exclude the public from their part of the river?

A: Not if the river is navigable. The policy of the government of Texas, expressed in statute since the days of the Republic, has been to retain the beds of navigable streams as public property.13 However, the state surveyors did not always adhere to this law, and some land grants purported to include the beds of navigable streams. To remedy this situation, in a 1929 law known as the Small Bill, the state relinquished to the adjoining landowners certain property rights in the beds of some navigable streams. However, this statute declared that it did not impair the rights of the general public and the state in the waters of the streams.14 So even if a landowner's deed includes the bed of a navigable stream, and taxes are being paid on the bed, the public retains its right to use it as a navigable stream.

It is a fairly common myth that a person boating along a "Small Bill" stream may not set foot on the streambed if the landowner forbids it. This is based on the notion that a person who steps into the streambed has entered onto private property within the meaning of the criminal trespass law.15 This may have some applicability when the waters of a stream leave its banks and a boater navigates out of the streambed and steps onto the adjacent private lands, or on coastal land when tide waters cover private property. But the general public has the right to walk within the boundaries of any navigable streambed, even if there are private ownership rights under the Small Bill.16


Edited by fouzman (04/26/16 02:08 PM)
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#11566867 - 04/26/16 02:11 PM Re: Waterway laws [Re: tonyp]
fouzman Online   content
Methuselah

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 43053
Loc: Houston, TX
Q: May a boater on a navigable stream lawfully go onto private land to check out or portage around an obstruction or hazard?

A: Navigable streams will sometimes have obstructions or hazards such as dams or log jams. For safety's sake, a boater must get out and scout to see if there is a safe route through. And sometimes it is necessary to portage the hazard or obstruction - carry the boat and gear around it on a reasonable, safe route.24 Navigation of the state's inland and coastal waters is one of several "public rights and duties" declared by the Texas Constitution.25 A right of portage has been recognized as a necessary part of the right of navigation in some other states, but there is no clear authority in Texas. The portage issue implicates the criminal trespass statute, and possibly the defense of necessity.26
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"Things turn out best for those who make the best of the way things turn out" - Zachary Troy Schrah - a young man with vision far beyond his years.

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#11567219 - 04/26/16 04:23 PM Re: Waterway laws [Re: tonyp]
Bass Buster1 Online   content
Extreme Angler

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 1346
Loc: Denton
This is the issue on the Devils River also and we fisherman win there so long as we follow the rules to the letter. Land owners DO NOT like people on the river but the fact is as long as you stay in the river bed you are legal. If you leave the river bed to tinkle, walk around, do anything, you are trespassing and can and will be ticketed or run off by an angry land owner. I would assume the same applies here. As long as you stay in the creek/public water way, I assume(we all know what that means) like on the Devils, you are legal. Some golf course lakes have some really nice fish and would be worth the risk. When I was stationed at Ft. Hood we lived in Temple and fished Temple lake park frequently with great success! We bank fished and did get run off by the folks at the golf course a time or two but it was no big deal, they asked us to leave and we did each time without incident. Had we been in the water in a boat and entered from the public park, they could not have legally asked us to leave. Not sure if this helps with your decision but if there is legal public access to the creek, and you want to fish it bad enough, it may be worth the risk.
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#11567679 - 04/26/16 08:06 PM Re: Waterway laws [Re: tonyp]
meP2too Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 2789
Loc: dallas,tx,usa
The creek with in the Royal Oaks Country Club is dammed with several stone structures to create small lakes, so you will not be able to navigate very far. Most likely crossing into private property will terminate open waters access, I know it does at the red river near the red river south marina

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