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#11427817 - 02/20/16 08:41 PM Diesel questions
SoonerDG Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 02/15/02
Posts: 1465
Loc: Joshua, TX
I'm in the market for a used diesel. My price range has got me looking at the mid-2000s F250. How much mileage is too high on one of these. Should I be scared of 180k-190k if the truck is otherwise in great shape. I know diesels will take a lot more mileage than a gasser but not sure where to draw the line. Can I expect one to go over 300k with proper maintenance? Looking at the FX4s with the lariat or king ranch trim Also, I've never owned a diesel. What do I need to know?
_________________________
"Life is a matter of luck and the odds of success are in no way enhanced by extreme caution." - Erich Topp, German U-boat Commander, 1943.

When in doubt, set the hook.

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#11427844 - 02/20/16 08:54 PM Re: Diesel questions [Re: SoonerDG]
glenls Offline
TFF Team Angler

Registered: 09/02/08
Posts: 3976
Loc: Granite Shoals Tx.
I drive a dodge but have heard from my buddy that had 2 6.0's and 1 6.4 that they eat him up in repairs. One of the 6.0's had a factory motor installed by ford at 30,000 miles. Don't know about the 6.7 that's redesigned as he gave up and went with chevy's. Said you couldn't get him to drive a dodge.

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#11427863 - 02/20/16 09:01 PM Re: Diesel questions [Re: glenls]
TCK73 Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 03/26/15
Posts: 1889
Loc: Jack County
I have driven many miles in all of them, the 6.9, 7.3's, 6.0, 6.4 and 6.7. Out of all of them, do yourself a favor and get a 7.3 if you can find one, or spend a little more on a 6.7. The little more you spend initially on a 6.7 will be lower than the repairs you will have on the 6.0 or 6.4. I have a friend in San Antonio that has a White 2000 model F250 Lariat that is in good shape. It has 190,000 miles and he is asking 17K. If you are interested, I can get you in touch with him.
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#11430087 - 02/22/16 08:02 AM Re: Diesel questions [Re: SoonerDG]
redchevy Offline
TFF Celebrity

Registered: 01/25/05
Posts: 6169
Loc: texas
This is from an economic stand point.

If you don't need a diesel pickup don't buy one. Fuel costs more, the current emissions can be quite spendy and problematic, if it breaks its gonna cost more, and maintenance will cost you more.

That said if you just gotta have one I would look for a lower mileage 6.0 and if its not already deleted get it done. I would never own a 6.4. The 7.3's are great motors, but they are not immune from problems either, and being that they are all getting older these days it makes it a less probably option.

I would consider looking outside ford. GM and Dodge had some great options in the mid 2000's.

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#11436057 - 02/24/16 11:01 AM Re: Diesel questions [Re: SoonerDG]
KingwoodCat Offline
TFF Guru

Registered: 10/30/04
Posts: 36103
Loc: Broaddus TX
We all have our personal opinions. IMO you cannot beat the 6.7 Cummins backed up by the Aisin Tranny.
159K on mine and it runs like a champ. Went to Rayburn and back last weekend (276 mi round trip) on 13.8 gal. Not to shabby. That said, when diesel is $.30 per gallon more expensive than regular, it is still hard to justify the diesel. On the other hand, had I bought a gas burner when I bought my RAM, it would probably already be traded off by now.
_________________________
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him had better take a look at the American Indian".

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#11438767 - 02/25/16 12:00 PM Re: Diesel questions [Re: SoonerDG]
hunterfishes Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 05/30/13
Posts: 127
I have a 2015 F250 with 6.7 I love it 86k miles already and not a wrench on it, however if I had it to do over again I would have stayed with my gas F 150 V8. The upkeep on the diesel is very high oil change runs in the $130.00 to $150.00 range depending on what oil you use, air filters 70.00 fuel filters every other oil change 32.00 I originally bought the F 250 in anticipation of getting a fifth wheel RV, but after deciding not to purchase that Its way more truck than I need to drive back and forth to work and pull the boat to the lake. If you are going to pull RV's and goosenecks and stuff too then the F 250 with 6.7 is perfect, but most folks don't need one that big.

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#11438820 - 02/25/16 12:25 PM Re: Diesel questions [Re: SoonerDG]
MR2 David Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 47
So im am one of those that don't need a diesel but have one because i used to tow my race car around plus my little aluminum boat. I have sold my race car and now only tow a little boat and on occasion a trailer to pick up cars but after having a GMC sierra gasser that i blew 2 transmission in, id never go to another gasser; 1) mine is a 5.9 cummins 2wd dually and i consistently get 16 MPG in the city and 16.8to 17 MPG highway just depending on speed.
2) can't feel a thing when i tow with my diesel compared to the gasser which had a hard time getting up hills with 2600 lb car.
3)Brakes! brakes! brakes! going down hill with a trailer on a 1/2 ton, i had to give myself a bus length to keep safe but with a 1 ton i can stop on a dime
4) my inspection is only $7.50 and visual only
There are some serious draw backs to owning a diesel like other have mentioned such as maintenance; 3 gallon oil changes, shops charge a premium to work on diesels, parts are extremely expensive, and these things are not meant to go off road by an means. I personally would stay away from the 6.0 and the 6.4 unless you have DEEP pockets and the same can go for Dodge autos prior to Aisin transmissions as mentioned above. I also can't stand all these emissions [censored] that the new than 05s have like DEF and EGR as mine has none and a manual transmission so it doesn't have issues like the newer ones. Hope this helped and i use mine to tow kids and groceries more than anything else and daily driven going on 230k (bought it at 170k)

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#11487176 - 03/19/16 05:49 AM Re: Diesel questions [Re: SoonerDG]
Allison1 Online   sleepy
TFF Guru

Registered: 12/14/03
Posts: 16386
Loc: Grand Prairie, Tx
I have a 2000 Cummins 5.9 Dodge that is not up to date by any means but for my use is superior to the new trucks in that it uses less fuel than the new diesels. It has just under 200k and a manual transmission.

If you're going to want a diesel, buy a Chevy. The ones in your price and year range will give you better fuel mileage and a better ride plus they have the Allison transmission. There I didn't endorse Dodge. If it was me I'd find a latter year 5.9 and buy another since they still got good mpg. KC's truck is one of the few that gets that good mileage.

I would drive my truck across country. Oh wait, I'm leaving tonight to go pick up an outboard west of Chicago. I hope to make it there and back by Monday morning. I plan on using under well under 100 gallons for the just under 2000 mile trip.

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#11487682 - 03/19/16 12:57 PM Re: Diesel questions [Re: SoonerDG]
bronco71 Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 1049
Loc: Farmers Branch/Sulphur Bluff
7.3 power stroke all the way! Only go 6.0 if it is already bulletproofed, stock is not reliable and it costs a lot to bulletproof one. 6.4 is xxxxxxx. The Ford automatic trans behind the diesel is very good and reliable.

Diesel trucks are built more heavy duty than gassers and if you tow or carry heavy loads a lot will get better mileage than the gasser with the same load.

Cummins engines and Allison trans are ok too, but I drove 7.3's and all the Cummins for years in company trucks for years in large step vans and bulk vans, many times pulling trailers, and STOCK to STOCK the 7.3 would hold 70 mph cruising in most conditions where the Cummins would not.

I also worked in the shop ordering parts, Cummins and 7.3 P/S both are very reliable, when the Cummins fails it is almost always catastrophic, as in holes in the block with rods hanging out.....7.3 is almost always rebuildable. Allison trans are reliable but extremely expensive to work on or replace....

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#11497483 - 03/23/16 10:41 PM Re: Diesel questions [Re: SoonerDG]
Austintatious Offline
Pro Angler

Registered: 03/09/09
Posts: 509
The issues with the 6.0 are way overblown... They dont have to be "bulletproofed" to be worth buying.

DO get a test kit to test for combustion gasses in the coolant
DO get an OBD2 device that can read oil and water temp, if the split is more than 15 degrees at 65MPH on flat ground, replace the oil cooler.
DO delete the EGR valve
DO flush the coolant and put something other than ford gold in it (cat spec I believe)

DONT put some monster power tune on the thing chasing horsepower.


The 6.0 got a bad rep for a few reasons.

1. ford gold coolant has a lot of silicates in it.
2. people were way over-tuning the trucks for power.
3. the oil cooler has very small ports
4. the Exhaust gas cooler is downstream of the oil cooler
5. each cylinder shares 2 TTY head bolts with its neighboring cylinder(s)

So here is what happened... people bought the trucks and did tunes on them or just pushed them hard. The high temps in the EGR cooler caused the silicates in the coolant to come out of suspension. They moved through the system and eventually started to clog up the oil cooler restricting flow to the cooler and also to the EGR cooler which is directly downstream. Then as people would floor the truck and demand high power, the EGR cooler wasn't getting enough flow and the coolant would boil off and stress and eventually crack the EGR cooler... This resulted in engine coolant getting into the engine through the exhaust gas recirculating system. This raised the head pressures dramatically and since the head bolts are shared and TTY, they would stretch them and blow the head gaskets.

The Bulletproofing is removing the EGR system and putting in head studs. The head studs are not really necessary unless you are chasing ponies. Just getting rid of the EGR system and flushing the cooling systems and putting in a fresh oil cooler and proper coolant will make the engine last for a LONG time.

I have moderate mechanical skills and was able to do all that myself in about 10 man hours working alone. The truck had 95k on it and I am up to 140k now and she has been great.

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#11497496 - 03/23/16 10:49 PM Re: Diesel questions [Re: Austintatious]
TCK73 Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 03/26/15
Posts: 1889
Loc: Jack County
Originally Posted By: Austintatious
The issues with the 6.0 are way overblown... They dont have to be "bulletproofed" to be worth buying.

DO get a test kit to test for combustion gasses in the coolant
DO get an OBD2 device that can read oil and water temp, if the split is more than 15 degrees at 65MPH on flat ground, replace the oil cooler.
DO delete the EGR valve
DO flush the coolant and put something other than ford gold in it (cat spec I believe)

DONT put some monster power tune on the thing chasing horsepower.


The 6.0 got a bad rep for a few reasons.

1. ford gold coolant has a lot of silicates in it.
2. people were way over-tuning the trucks for power.
3. the oil cooler has very small ports
4. the Exhaust gas cooler is downstream of the oil cooler
5. each cylinder shares 2 TTY head bolts with its neighboring cylinder(s)

So here is what happened... people bought the trucks and did tunes on them or just pushed them hard. The high temps in the EGR cooler caused the silicates in the coolant to come out of suspension. They moved through the system and eventually started to clog up the oil cooler restricting flow to the cooler and also to the EGR cooler which is directly downstream. Then as people would floor the truck and demand high power, the EGR cooler wasn't getting enough flow and the coolant would boil off and stress and eventually crack the EGR cooler... This resulted in engine coolant getting into the engine through the exhaust gas recirculating system. This raised the head pressures dramatically and since the head bolts are shared and TTY, they would stretch them and blow the head gaskets.

The Bulletproofing is removing the EGR system and putting in head studs. The head studs are not really necessary unless you are chasing ponies. Just getting rid of the EGR system and flushing the cooling systems and putting in a fresh oil cooler and proper coolant will make the engine last for a LONG time.

I have moderate mechanical skills and was able to do all that myself in about 10 man hours working alone. The truck had 95k on it and I am up to 140k now and she has been great.


That all sounds good, but I'm not buying a much of it. I had over 70 of them in my fleet at work, and maybe a handful of them were reliable. My personal 2003 model blew a head gasket at 85000. No tunes, no BS. It was worked like any truck can be expected to, and it gave up the ghost pulling a load of hay one afternoon. I will agree that tunes make it worse, but the ones without them are not immune to the same problems.
_________________________


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#11497548 - 03/23/16 11:40 PM Re: Diesel questions [Re: TCK73]
bronco71 Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 1049
Loc: Farmers Branch/Sulphur Bluff
Originally Posted By: TCK73
Originally Posted By: Austintatious
The issues with the 6.0 are way overblown... They dont have to be "bulletproofed" to be worth buying.

DO get a test kit to test for combustion gasses in the coolant
DO get an OBD2 device that can read oil and water temp, if the split is more than 15 degrees at 65MPH on flat ground, replace the oil cooler.
DO delete the EGR valve
DO flush the coolant and put something other than ford gold in it (cat spec I believe)

DONT put some monster power tune on the thing chasing horsepower.


The 6.0 got a bad rep for a few reasons.

1. ford gold coolant has a lot of silicates in it.
2. people were way over-tuning the trucks for power.
3. the oil cooler has very small ports
4. the Exhaust gas cooler is downstream of the oil cooler
5. each cylinder shares 2 TTY head bolts with its neighboring cylinder(s)

So here is what happened... people bought the trucks and did tunes on them or just pushed them hard. The high temps in the EGR cooler caused the silicates in the coolant to come out of suspension. They moved through the system and eventually started to clog up the oil cooler restricting flow to the cooler and also to the EGR cooler which is directly downstream. Then as people would floor the truck and demand high power, the EGR cooler wasn't getting enough flow and the coolant would boil off and stress and eventually crack the EGR cooler... This resulted in engine coolant getting into the engine through the exhaust gas recirculating system. This raised the head pressures dramatically and since the head bolts are shared and TTY, they would stretch them and blow the head gaskets.

The Bulletproofing is removing the EGR system and putting in head studs. The head studs are not really necessary unless you are chasing ponies. Just getting rid of the EGR system and flushing the cooling systems and putting in a fresh oil cooler and proper coolant will make the engine last for a LONG time.

I have moderate mechanical skills and was able to do all that myself in about 10 man hours working alone. The truck had 95k on it and I am up to 140k now and she has been great.


That all sounds good, but I'm not buying a much of it. I had over 70 of them in my fleet at work, and maybe a handful of them were reliable. My personal 2003 model blew a head gasket at 85000. No tunes, no BS. It was worked like any truck can be expected to, and it gave up the ghost pulling a load of hay one afternoon. I will agree that tunes make it worse, but the ones without them are not immune to the same problems.


True, our trucks have daily maintenance and these are totally unreliable stock, but they are work trucks and get a workout.....but so do the same type trucks with 7.3 p/s and cummins and these are totally reliable.

I won't buy a new personal truck that I'm going to have to do major work on to make it reliable! Now if one was given to me I could justify putting the money into it to make it last but all the ones I have seen are broke and the owner owes so much on them they can't sell them cheap enough to justify the purchase plus upgrades...

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#11498191 - 03/24/16 09:54 AM Re: Diesel questions [Re: TCK73]
Austintatious Offline
Pro Angler

Registered: 03/09/09
Posts: 509
Originally Posted By: TCK73
Originally Posted By: Austintatious
The issues with the 6.0 are way overblown... They dont have to be "bulletproofed" to be worth buying.

DO get a test kit to test for combustion gasses in the coolant
DO get an OBD2 device that can read oil and water temp, if the split is more than 15 degrees at 65MPH on flat ground, replace the oil cooler.
DO delete the EGR valve
DO flush the coolant and put something other than ford gold in it (cat spec I believe)

DONT put some monster power tune on the thing chasing horsepower.


The 6.0 got a bad rep for a few reasons.

1. ford gold coolant has a lot of silicates in it.
2. people were way over-tuning the trucks for power.
3. the oil cooler has very small ports
4. the Exhaust gas cooler is downstream of the oil cooler
5. each cylinder shares 2 TTY head bolts with its neighboring cylinder(s)

So here is what happened... people bought the trucks and did tunes on them or just pushed them hard. The high temps in the EGR cooler caused the silicates in the coolant to come out of suspension. They moved through the system and eventually started to clog up the oil cooler restricting flow to the cooler and also to the EGR cooler which is directly downstream. Then as people would floor the truck and demand high power, the EGR cooler wasn't getting enough flow and the coolant would boil off and stress and eventually crack the EGR cooler... This resulted in engine coolant getting into the engine through the exhaust gas recirculating system. This raised the head pressures dramatically and since the head bolts are shared and TTY, they would stretch them and blow the head gaskets.

The Bulletproofing is removing the EGR system and putting in head studs. The head studs are not really necessary unless you are chasing ponies. Just getting rid of the EGR system and flushing the cooling systems and putting in a fresh oil cooler and proper coolant will make the engine last for a LONG time.

I have moderate mechanical skills and was able to do all that myself in about 10 man hours working alone. The truck had 95k on it and I am up to 140k now and she has been great.


That all sounds good, but I'm not buying a much of it. I had over 70 of them in my fleet at work, and maybe a handful of them were reliable. My personal 2003 model blew a head gasket at 85000. No tunes, no BS. It was worked like any truck can be expected to, and it gave up the ghost pulling a load of hay one afternoon. I will agree that tunes make it worse, but the ones without them are not immune to the same problems.


of course they aren't immune... I didn't mean to imply that... all the issues I listed still obviously exist and the same chain of events happens WRT the head gasket failure.

Part of the problem is that those models didn't have any stock way to see the water temp/oil temp differential. If they had, people could have caught the problem early... When I got my truck, the split was 35 degrees when it should have been 7 (which it is now). HOw the head gasket was still in tack is beyond me.. but I was able to check prior to buying it with a kit.

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#11498233 - 03/24/16 10:12 AM Re: Diesel questions [Re: SoonerDG]
bronco71 Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 1049
Loc: Farmers Branch/Sulphur Bluff
I admit that if you get a good deal on a 6.0L diesel and do the upgrades, I would definatly do the head studs too, they run very strong and are reliable.... just a lot of extra work and money involved.....

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#11498247 - 03/24/16 10:17 AM Re: Diesel questions [Re: SoonerDG]
redchevy Offline
TFF Celebrity

Registered: 01/25/05
Posts: 6169
Loc: texas
Have a buddy that just sold a 2005 6.0 ford with 310,000 miles on it. He did head studs and the deletes with a mild tune and no problems.

If you delete them they make good trucks. I was shopping used diesels for a few years hoping to find just what I wanted(never did) but the fords with the 6.0 sell for darn near enough less than a cummins or dmax that you could still do the deletes and not be out any more money.

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