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What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? #11136653 09/30/15 02:19 PM
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Coach P Offline OP
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Right off the top, I want to say, I'm not knocking the work the several organizations and kayak outfitting shops do to present a tournament or the even more complicated series of tournaments. I in fact applaud them for their efforts. I am just one guy, hoping that there could be a better tomorrow.

I enjoy participating in tournament events and would like to see them continue to grow in popularity. Our southern buddies seem to have if figured out. Their events often draw 100 people to participate each time. I find it odd that with the population of avid kayak fishermen in the DFW area that our events seem to only number half, and that's on an amazing turnout. The fact is most only number 20-30. My perception has been that with more anglers it is easier to find sponsors for events and create a more attractive payout, thus attracting more individuals to sign up.

My proposal is a community outcry for a better tomorrow. The fall is fast approaching, and soon the fishing season will dip to its low while the chilly temperatures keep most of us at home dreaming of the spring time. That seems like a good opportunity for the many organizations to coordinate and become ONE!

Imagine one organization, one schedule, 1 large event each month (or maybe just every 3 weeks, since we all seem to get the itch if it's too long) where our favorite shops and organizations were able to pool their collective resources and offer some truly amazing prize packages for lower cost entry fees. There could be an amateur or fly division as well to feed everyone's passions. I love seeing the friends I've made at each event and I like the almost carnival atmosphere some of the tournaments have provided with larger participation. I have felt torn in the past season between which events to fish and it's even worse when they are scheduled on the same day. I can't fish them all, even though I'd love too! The cost of time and money becomes prohibitive. I even feel guilty at times choosing one event over the other.

My fear is that one day the minor conflicts will become great divides and force both event organizers and anglers alike to choose sides and drive the sport I have grown to love into extinction. I invite a discussion to begin with ideas and solutions to what I see as a potentially catastrophic end or the continuing struggling existence of DFW kayak tournaments.


Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11136736 09/30/15 02:59 PM
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Who would love to fish a tournament series coordinated by Anglers Pro Tackle, Backwoods Sports, Mariner Sails and Mountain Sports (listed alphabetically thumb) all at the same time?! I know I would!


Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11136752 09/30/15 03:12 PM
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amen brotha, we hear your woe's. Trust me when I say we are all working on this.

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11136775 09/30/15 03:26 PM
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That definitely sounds interesting. I know for a guy like me living in Fort Worth it's next to impossible to make it over to Mariner Sails. Which sucks because they have given me great opportunities with the working mans tourneys. A series that is put on by multiple shops would be beneficial to us but maybe not so much them.

Either way I am interested. Prizes, entry fees, and locations all play a roll in what tourneys a lot of us do around here. Not to mention the fact that some of us rookie anglers don't want to pay a high entry fee when we know the better and more experienced kayak tournament fisherman will be there. It almost feels like throwing away money.

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11136820 09/30/15 03:43 PM
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This has been the big question for several years now. Tournament fishing isn't for everyone. A bunch of guys on here that post pics of big bass all the time don't show up and they could compete with the best of us. IMO we just have a small community of tournament fisherman. We've had only one trail for several years and the same group of guys show up and that was only about 25. We've had different entry fees and the higher it was with bigger payouts the less people showed. The more simple and small entry fee the better turnout. Getting prizes from sponsors is not a problem but yes they would like big turnouts at our events. This year was my first time running a tournament other than the working mans and I'll tell you it's not easy. It's hard to run a trail and fish a trail too so every trail we've had, only last a year and somebody else had to take it over.

Year before last we had CCKF come around but yes the same 25 guys showed out of the all the bass guys in north Texas. We had a kayak bass fishing club that had better turn outs on average so I tried to copy that this year to bring up participation in future trails. Same with the other event organizers. We've all tried to hit other areas to make these fun and different. You worry about a conflict and yes that could happen but we (the organizers for the different sponsors) are all part of the usual 25 and we want to fish big tournaments and are trying to get more guys involved. The guys from the other stores and I actually planned our events to not conflict with each other.

This year has been the biggest participation I've seen so far in north Texas with a lot of new faces so maybe next year will be different. I'm hoping we have a great trail next year because I need one after sitting tournament fishing out this year.

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11136838 09/30/15 03:50 PM
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What if it was one trail with 8 events each shop sponsored two events each with a classic at the end. AOY points race pro division, AOY points race social decision AOY points race fly division. That would be awesome! And instead of divide it would grow!

I do know your feeling of guilt fishing one trail or the other! Having friends that fish all different trails I want to be able to hang out an fish with all of them but same day schedules and every day life prevent me from doing so.

What I have found is best for me is to just fish the lakes I like on the days I can and hope some of my friends make it out so I can bs at the weigh-in.

Good write up Jay!

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11136850 09/30/15 03:52 PM
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It seems to me if we all worked together instead of jockeying for our piece of the kayak pie our kayak community could grow exponentially. Unfortunately right now it's an us against them mentality that seems to keep things sect up. I think you are on to something Jay, the whole tournament scene is watered down with too many tournaments right now. If all of our shops played nice and worked together we could easily have something as awesome or better than Austin. I too look forward to a more united and better tomorrow. Fish on brothers and sisters fish

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11136889 09/30/15 04:04 PM
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I would like to see more junior divisions in each tourney. My daughter is 12 and wants to fish in kayak fishing tourneys, but makes no sense to pay an entry fee for her to fish against experienced men. She is my best fishing partner, so I will probably not fish any tourney unless she can come with and compete on her own.

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Grease Bath] #11136935 09/30/15 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: Grease Bath
It seems to me if we all worked together instead of jockeying for our piece of the kayak pie our kayak community could grow exponentially. Unfortunately right now it's an us against them mentality that seems to keep things sect up. I think you are on to something Jay, the whole tournament scene is watered down with too many tournaments right now. If all of our shops played nice and worked together we could easily have something as awesome or better than Austin. I too look forward to a more united and better tomorrow. Fish on brothers and sisters fish

I'll admit that too many events will cause issues but this is the first year we've had this. What's the excuse for the several years we only had one trial run by either Josh, Rob, Robbie and Beau. They gave away kayaks and all kinds of great gear for prizes. That was 4 year worth of the same 25 guys fishing against each other. I think you guys have a point we should be careful of but it's not what has been the issue.

Last edited by Todd; 09/30/15 04:35 PM.
Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11136971 09/30/15 04:37 PM
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I understand that many people feel a combined series would be great! And Todd brings up an excellent point; it'd be great for "us". So what's in it for them? I admit I've never personally organized an event (nor would I want too, after some of the horror stories of how much work it is). But I would think there are several advantages to the shops as well as the pro-staff that organize many of the events.

For instance... a combined schedule means easier event planning w/o stepping on anyone else's toes. Many anglers have heard the rumblings of "shop A" intentionally scheduling over "shop B" in efforts to squish the competition and rule more of the pie. The business practice while sound, (we are a stronger brand and can survive) does still create some residual anxiety in the customer base. Any business would agree, happy customers are better.

Coordinating combined events would lower the sponsor obligations for each individual event and allow larger offers for the remaining events. (a sponsor aka kayak dealer, fishing equipment manufacturer, has a set budget of what they can give away, and a lot of hands being held out means less for each event, fewer hands, larger samples for the remaining).

A combined effort would mean lower staff resource requirements. Instead of having a few people for each series, you'd have a pool of individuals to run the combined events. Leaving pro-staff and owners the opportunities to participate in events, build relationships with customers and further their potential customer base. (you know every pro-staff wants to fish the "big" events, but has to balance their obligations as well).

The prize pools could be coordinated, and with higher participation, the entry fees could be lowered. 100 people at $30 a head is still a $3000 payout, instead of 30 people at $100 each. A lower risk would attract more anglers. Each shop already finds a way to offer a "big prize" at a year end event, why not spread it out and have one at EVERY tournament. There would be opportunities for prizes for the above-mentioned youth anglers (let them fish for free for some sponsored prizes! We all saw the barbie pole girl real in her 20" all by herself.)

There are certainly many more opportunities and advantages for combined events. And "we" all have some great ideas! "We" just need a combined voice to ask for the resolution of escalating tensions and a few brave organizations to step up and be the FIRST to commit.


Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11137141 09/30/15 05:50 PM
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When I started the KATS many moons ago, it was based on offering a low cost alternative to PB bass fishing tourneys. I also selected lakes within 50 miles of the center of Austin. Everyone that signed up got a goodie bag full of kayak fishing stuff from sponsors I solicited. There was no raffle, everyone entered got a chance at a drawing for nice free stuff (usually half the field won something). My wife and others prepared hot food for all anglers entered. Games were played while the scoring took place. Nice trophys were donated for each event. I reserved $5 of a $30 entry fee for Paypal and food...the rest went into a 100% payout spread out over a minimum of 5 places. 7 day Off limits were strictly enforced. There was no "Classic", if you won the series, you were top angler for the year. It was fun, which is the reason I got out of my PB and into a kayak...simplicity.
Now a days, everyone wants to act like a professional bass fisherman. If kayak fishing tourneys are to grow in the metroplex, it'll take a strong leader making common sense judgements that keeps the playing field level for all to compete in some form. Good luck fellers, I'm out...gone fishing ;-)

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11137189 09/30/15 06:10 PM
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This is an on going battle.. I remember when Dennis started the Kats and it was a great event. Now it seems like there are battles over all kinds of stuff. I for one usually try to fish both the CCKF and KATS, but this year the KATS dates and the CCKF overlap causing people to choose one over the other even though CCKF released tournament dates before hand. I probably opened a big bag of worms with that... anyway I choose CCKF trail and the Dallas area should see a lot more Austin guys coming up and fish the Dallas dates. I totally believe in the if you build it they will come, but its important that every trail works with each other on picking dates and events. I hope the Dallas area picks up it would be great to fish against y'all!

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11137238 09/30/15 06:32 PM
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I have lots of thoughts on this. Take them with a grain of salt by someone who has been on every side of this fence. I'd love to see a big trail happen but it is more than just agreeing to work on it together.Here are some things to consider.

1. Kayak Fishing Tournaments are a money losing endeavor.
It is hard to put together a business plan as suggested above that people will be able to sign off on. You ask for shops to run it but they are also opened on a lot of tournament days. Saturdays are some of the busiest retail days yet you would ask for staff to run an event. That's a hard sell. Asking the same shop to donate some kayaks to entice more people to fish the trail is a $$$ drain for the shop as well. Even if volunteers run it for the shop, how weary will they grow of not being paid and spending 12+ hours at least one Saturday a month for a good part of the year watching everyone else fish? I work three big tourneys a year, they average 150 people at each. I get compensated for my time there. I am absolutely exhausted when it's done. A three day event takes seven days of time there for a big event with coordination of entities, lodging, tech, registrants prefishing, judging, prizes, cash, accounting, travel and the list goes on and on. If you are paying people, you have get that money from somewhere. You could pull it out of the prize money but then it would be shamed on the internet for not being 100% payback. That is why you see so many charge "membership fees" to fish their trails. It costs money to do events and anglers want everyone else to pony it up. What is the end gain of sponsoring a trail? Exposure, maybe you'll sell a few more kayaks? Brand awareness?

2. Location
Austin has hot water lakes with low fee or free access and spring fed lakes where fish are abundant and anyone can catch fish. We had a few guys locally drive to Austin to pay higher fees on a Thursday tournament because of the lakes. Pride eats at a lot of tournament fishermen. If the lakes are tough they'd rather not go than show and zero. Yes, you read that right. We had multiple guys drive 80 miles to Austin one way to fish a $25 entry fee on a weeknight against guys who fish those lakes weekly rather than staying local, paying $20 and fish their home lake. Austin is kayak bass fishing Mecca. Duplicating its success will be hard. I understand Lake Fork is in the DFW area but honestly it is two hours away from a lot of people. Monti is a ways off too. Austin has a 12 month fishing season and growing season. DFW doesn't. Realistically, 100+ anglers once a month when conditions can be as tough as they are is a hard ask. If Lady Bird and Bastrop which are both within 30 minutes of most of the Austin area anglers were instead located in Arlington, you'd have something.

3. The model
KATS, which is the big numbers trail, is supported by 1 shop. And a big one at that. In management systems you learn as the contributing voices get too many in number, progress slows. There is a happy sweet spot for contributors. Then, after all of that, who is going to run it and have final say? There has to be a buck stops here person. And from experience, I can tell you it ain't fun to be that guy.

4. The motivation
What is the motivation for wanting a big trail? Do you want more prizes or more money? Do you want to sell more kayaks or are you looking to grow the community?

Community growth is done over food, fellowship and fun times. Some people have a good time at tournaments but MOST new people who are thinking about kayak fishing aren't interested in fishing for money. The best times I've ever had have been at get togethers, river floats, buddy trips etc. I can't remember ANY tournament that I enjoyed more than a G2G. Not one. I've had fun and been entertained but when you take the money stress out of an event, the attitudes of so many people relax. That relaxation moment, the deep exhale of shedding the week's stress with that first paddle stroke is what we should share. Community growth sells more kayaks. Community growth helps everyone, especially the hosting shop.

Tournament growth is done over prizes and cash. You have to get out of the mindset of trinkets if you want to get big. You have to develop relationships with companies who will put money into the prize pot, not just a paddle or cup. Forging large company relationships help. Prizes and the like work well for social divisions but if it is a payout you are after, thinking beyond just three or four local businesses is a must. The way I see Dallas and the Metro getting 100+ people to events is by convincing bass boat guys to come chase kayak money. Show them that they could win $5,000, $10,000 or more with a good stringer out of a kayak that has pedals or a paddle or even a trolling motor. A $4,000 kayak setup is a drop in the bucket to what these guys are spending. People "graduate" from kayak fishing to power boats for money and sponsorship opportunities. Cultivating those same sponsorships in kayaks will attract them back and gain a new market share.



So is it possible to do community growth and tournament growth at the same time? Sure but you have to think bigger. People won't show up in droves for trinkets and a chance unless there is another draw. A G2G with a tournament is a good start. People will travel from 2,000 miles away for a chance at $25,000. If you could combine the two on a big scale and do an Outdoor Retailer style paddle fest, tournament, bbq dinner and fund raiser all on the same weekend then you would have the ear of the big sponsors. Chambers of Commerce would fight over you if you held events at a local venue that could draw 500+ people over multiple days. Especially if they are getting hotel rooms. Have something for the whole family to do while one of them is out chasing a check. Make it a show!


So, that's my feedback. Take it for what you will. You have a few things in your favor and a few that aren't but with enough people it might just happen.

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: PayneFish] #11137314 09/30/15 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted By: PayneFish
I have lots of thoughts on this. Take them with a grain of salt by someone who has been on every side of this fence. I'd love to see a big trail happen but it is more than just agreeing to work on it together.Here are some things to consider.

1. Kayak Fishing Tournaments are a money losing endeavor.
It is hard to put together a business plan as suggested above that people will be able to sign off on. You ask for shops to run it but they are also opened on a lot of tournament days. Saturdays are some of the busiest retail days yet you would ask for staff to run an event. That's a hard sell. Asking the same shop to donate some kayaks to entice more people to fish the trail is a $$$ drain for the shop as well. Even if volunteers run it for the shop, how weary will they grow of not being paid and spending 12+ hours at least one Saturday a month for a good part of the year watching everyone else fish? I work three big tourneys a year, they average 150 people at each. I get compensated for my time there. I am absolutely exhausted when it's done. A three day event takes seven days of time there for a big event with coordination of entities, lodging, tech, registrants prefishing, judging, prizes, cash, accounting, travel and the list goes on and on. If you are paying people, you have get that money from somewhere. You could pull it out of the prize money but then it would be shamed on the internet for not being 100% payback. That is why you see so many charge "membership fees" to fish their trails. It costs money to do events and anglers want everyone else to pony it up. What is the end gain of sponsoring a trail? Exposure, maybe you'll sell a few more kayaks? Brand awareness?

2. Location
Austin has hot water lakes with low fee or free access and spring fed lakes where fish are abundant and anyone can catch fish. We had a few guys locally drive to Austin to pay higher fees on a Thursday tournament because of the lakes. Pride eats at a lot of tournament fishermen. If the lakes are tough they'd rather not go than show and zero. Yes, you read that right. We had multiple guys drive 80 miles to Austin one way to fish a $25 entry fee on a weeknight against guys who fish those lakes weekly rather than staying local, paying $20 and fish their home lake. Austin is kayak bass fishing Mecca. Duplicating its success will be hard. I understand Lake Fork is in the DFW area but honestly it is two hours away from a lot of people. Monti is a ways off too. Austin has a 12 month fishing season and growing season. DFW doesn't. Realistically, 100+ anglers once a month when conditions can be as tough as they are is a hard ask. If Lady Bird and Bastrop which are both within 30 minutes of most of the Austin area anglers were instead located in Arlington, you'd have something.

3. The model
KATS, which is the big numbers trail, is supported by 1 shop. And a big one at that. In management systems you learn as the contributing voices get too many in number, progress slows. There is a happy sweet spot for contributors. Then, after all of that, who is going to run it and have final say? There has to be a buck stops here person. And from experience, I can tell you it ain't fun to be that guy.

4. The motivation
What is the motivation for wanting a big trail? Do you want more prizes or more money? Do you want to sell more kayaks or are you looking to grow the community?

Community growth is done over food, fellowship and fun times. Some people have a good time at tournaments but MOST new people who are thinking about kayak fishing aren't interested in fishing for money. The best times I've ever had have been at get togethers, river floats, buddy trips etc. I can't remember ANY tournament that I enjoyed more than a G2G. Not one. I've had fun and been entertained but when you take the money stress out of an event, the attitudes of so many people relax. That relaxation moment, the deep exhale of shedding the week's stress with that first paddle stroke is what we should share. Community growth sells more kayaks. Community growth helps everyone, especially the hosting shop.

Tournament growth is done over prizes and cash. You have to get out of the mindset of trinkets if you want to get big. You have to develop relationships with companies who will put money into the prize pot, not just a paddle or cup. Forging large company relationships help. Prizes and the like work well for social divisions but if it is a payout you are after, thinking beyond just three or four local businesses is a must. The way I see Dallas and the Metro getting 100+ people to events is by convincing bass boat guys to come chase kayak money. Show them that they could win $5,000, $10,000 or more with a good stringer out of a kayak that has pedals or a paddle or even a trolling motor. A $4,000 kayak setup is a drop in the bucket to what these guys are spending. People "graduate" from kayak fishing to power boats for money and sponsorship opportunities. Cultivating those same sponsorships in kayaks will attract them back and gain a new market share.



So is it possible to do community growth and tournament growth at the same time? Sure but you have to think bigger. People won't show up in droves for trinkets and a chance unless there is another draw. A G2G with a tournament is a good start. People will travel from 2,000 miles away for a chance at $25,000. If you could combine the two on a big scale and do an Outdoor Retailer style paddle fest, tournament, bbq dinner and fund raiser all on the same weekend then you would have the ear of the big sponsors. Chambers of Commerce would fight over you if you held events at a local venue that could draw 500+ people over multiple days. Especially if they are getting hotel rooms. Have something for the whole family to do while one of them is out chasing a check. Make it a show!


So, that's my feedback. Take it for what you will. You have a few things in your favor and a few that aren't but with enough people it might just happen.


I've been in the fishing industry for many years, and I have to say you nailed it.

I would also like to invite the owners of the other retail stores in the DFW area, along with those who are running tournament trails to a sit down so we can discuss the future and how we can all work together. I've attempted this in the past, with no success, So I'm reaching out again to offer the opportunity. I can be reached at 817-503-2333. I hope we can put this together soon.


Rick Wallace
Angler's Pro Tackle & Outdoors
https://anglersprotackle.com
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Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11137320 09/30/15 07:05 PM
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So I was reading through this and all the days of big bass boats and chasing green fish on Saturdays and prefish came rushing back to me and it made me think about why I quit it more than anything. The pressure takes the fun out of it, period. I love fishing and want it to be a stress reliever not inducer so I fish for what is biting and have fun. If pushing yourself to chase bass when they don't want to bite and the weather is not agreeable is what you want to do by all means take up tournament fishing.

I had more fun in draw formats fishing bass clubs, the camaraderie with someone I never fished with before and the learning/teaching experiences were far better days than getting the snot beat out of me fishing in 25 mph wind to get 5 bites and cash a check.

So my question to you guys is why have you not tried a draw format instead of pro/am divisions? Then the pros can have their format for cashing and check and the 'backseaters' can have an alternative format. Both anglers will learn from each other and everyone benefits from that.

Remember we are here as kayak anglers and are known for innovation and thinking outside the box, leave the box for the guys with the bass boat and you may find the solution to your conundrum.


Bert

"Ipsa scientia potestas est"-Knowledge in itself is power - Sir Francis Bacon

"Beware the lolipop of mediocrity, one lick and you could suck forever" - unknown author
Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: crabtrap] #11137325 09/30/15 07:07 PM
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Nathan "Bull" Montgomery Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hooked on Kayaks
When I started the KATS many moons ago, it was based on offering a low cost alternative to PB bass fishing tourneys. I also selected lakes within 50 miles of the center of Austin. Everyone that signed up got a goodie bag full of kayak fishing stuff from sponsors I solicited. There was no raffle, everyone entered got a chance at a drawing for nice free stuff (usually half the field won something). My wife and others prepared hot food for all anglers entered. Games were played while the scoring took place. Nice trophys were donated for each event. I reserved $5 of a $30 entry fee for Paypal and food...the rest went into a 100% payout spread out over a minimum of 5 places. 7 day Off limits were strictly enforced. There was no "Classic", if you won the series, you were top angler for the year. It was fun, which is the reason I got out of my PB and into a kayak...simplicity.
Now a days, everyone wants to act like a professional bass fisherman. If kayak fishing tourneys are to grow in the metroplex, it'll take a strong leader making common sense judgements that keeps the playing field level for all to compete in some form. Good luck fellers, I'm out...gone fishing ;-)


+1000
The way you just described everything is 100% a tournament that I would like to fish! Low entry fee, prizes for most everyone(even if they are small) food (you get pretty hungry by 3pm) and I also really like the 7 days off limits as well! That being said having someone capable of running a tournament like that and doing all that stuff would be pretty tough.

I know the reason I can't make it out to most tournaments is time and money. More so time than anything. I have to work a Saturday or 2 each month, and the tournaments are ALWAYS scheduled on Saturdays and never Sundays so that can be an issue. And with the time issue (at least for me) it makes it hard for me to able to get out a do any practicing or pre fishing. I can pretty much only fish on the weekends and only on a weekend im not working. I think though the thing that most deters me is the higher entry fees of some of the trails. Just hard for me to throw down $50 on a lake I dont get to fish much against guys that fish it all the time. With a lower entry fee ($20-30 is the sweet spot IMO) it makes it a little more do able in my opinion.

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Nathan "Bull" Montgomery] #11137360 09/30/15 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: Nathan "Bull" Montgomery
Originally Posted By: Hooked on Kayaks
When I started the KATS many moons ago, it was based on offering a low cost alternative to PB bass fishing tourneys. I also selected lakes within 50 miles of the center of Austin. Everyone that signed up got a goodie bag full of kayak fishing stuff from sponsors I solicited. There was no raffle, everyone entered got a chance at a drawing for nice free stuff (usually half the field won something). My wife and others prepared hot food for all anglers entered. Games were played while the scoring took place. Nice trophys were donated for each event. I reserved $5 of a $30 entry fee for Paypal and food...the rest went into a 100% payout spread out over a minimum of 5 places. 7 day Off limits were strictly enforced. There was no "Classic", if you won the series, you were top angler for the year. It was fun, which is the reason I got out of my PB and into a kayak...simplicity.
Now a days, everyone wants to act like a professional bass fisherman. If kayak fishing tourneys are to grow in the metroplex, it'll take a strong leader making common sense judgements that keeps the playing field level for all to compete in some form. Good luck fellers, I'm out...gone fishing ;-)


+1000
The way you just described everything is 100% a tournament that I would like to fish! Low entry fee, prizes for most everyone(even if they are small) food (you get pretty hungry by 3pm) and I also really like the 7 days off limits as well! That being said having someone capable of running a tournament like that and doing all that stuff would be pretty tough.

I know the reason I can't make it out to most tournaments is time and money. More so time than anything. I have to work a Saturday or 2 each month, and the tournaments are ALWAYS scheduled on Saturdays and never Sundays so that can be an issue. And with the time issue (at least for me) it makes it hard for me to able to get out a do any practicing or pre fishing. I can pretty much only fish on the weekends and only on a weekend im not working. I think though the thing that most deters me is the higher entry fees of some of the trails. Just hard for me to throw down $50 on a lake I dont get to fish much against guys that fish it all the time. With a lower entry fee ($20-30 is the sweet spot IMO) it makes it a little more do able in my opinion.


Well put. I think Sundays would should be an option too. I know it would have other conflicts for people, but for me and others it would be easier. That sweet spot is right on too. Makes it a lot easier for a newbie like me to go out there.

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Rhino68W] #11137382 09/30/15 07:29 PM
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jasoniam Offline
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Originally Posted By: Rhino68W

Well put. I think Sundays would should be an option too. I know it would have other conflicts for people, but for me and others it would be easier. That sweet spot is right on too. Makes it a lot easier for a newbie like me to go out there.

I'm with that! Saturdays are always hard for me as I work 60% of em! Sundays Would definately be awesome!!! Plus for me distance is key! Alot of these tourneys are Fork and other places that most of the time are a ways for me!!

And kudos to Mr Wallace for stepping up to the plate like that! Always had great respect for the guy who always does his best to create a better fishing atmosphere!


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Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: APT] #11137400 09/30/15 07:36 PM
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Rick, I sent you an email to your gmail account.

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Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: APT] #11137414 09/30/15 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted By: APT
Originally Posted By: PayneFish
I have lots of thoughts on this. Take them with a grain of salt by someone who has been on every side of this fence. I'd love to see a big trail happen but it is more than just agreeing to work on it together.Here are some things to consider.

1. Kayak Fishing Tournaments are a money losing endeavor.
It is hard to put together a business plan as suggested above that people will be able to sign off on. You ask for shops to run it but they are also opened on a lot of tournament days. Saturdays are some of the busiest retail days yet you would ask for staff to run an event. That's a hard sell. Asking the same shop to donate some kayaks to entice more people to fish the trail is a $$$ drain for the shop as well. Even if volunteers run it for the shop, how weary will they grow of not being paid and spending 12+ hours at least one Saturday a month for a good part of the year watching everyone else fish? I work three big tourneys a year, they average 150 people at each. I get compensated for my time there. I am absolutely exhausted when it's done. A three day event takes seven days of time there for a big event with coordination of entities, lodging, tech, registrants prefishing, judging, prizes, cash, accounting, travel and the list goes on and on. If you are paying people, you have get that money from somewhere. You could pull it out of the prize money but then it would be shamed on the internet for not being 100% payback. That is why you see so many charge "membership fees" to fish their trails. It costs money to do events and anglers want everyone else to pony it up. What is the end gain of sponsoring a trail? Exposure, maybe you'll sell a few more kayaks? Brand awareness?

2. Location
Austin has hot water lakes with low fee or free access and spring fed lakes where fish are abundant and anyone can catch fish. We had a few guys locally drive to Austin to pay higher fees on a Thursday tournament because of the lakes. Pride eats at a lot of tournament fishermen. If the lakes are tough they'd rather not go than show and zero. Yes, you read that right. We had multiple guys drive 80 miles to Austin one way to fish a $25 entry fee on a weeknight against guys who fish those lakes weekly rather than staying local, paying $20 and fish their home lake. Austin is kayak bass fishing Mecca. Duplicating its success will be hard. I understand Lake Fork is in the DFW area but honestly it is two hours away from a lot of people. Monti is a ways off too. Austin has a 12 month fishing season and growing season. DFW doesn't. Realistically, 100+ anglers once a month when conditions can be as tough as they are is a hard ask. If Lady Bird and Bastrop which are both within 30 minutes of most of the Austin area anglers were instead located in Arlington, you'd have something.

3. The model
KATS, which is the big numbers trail, is supported by 1 shop. And a big one at that. In management systems you learn as the contributing voices get too many in number, progress slows. There is a happy sweet spot for contributors. Then, after all of that, who is going to run it and have final say? There has to be a buck stops here person. And from experience, I can tell you it ain't fun to be that guy.

4. The motivation
What is the motivation for wanting a big trail? Do you want more prizes or more money? Do you want to sell more kayaks or are you looking to grow the community?

Community growth is done over food, fellowship and fun times. Some people have a good time at tournaments but MOST new people who are thinking about kayak fishing aren't interested in fishing for money. The best times I've ever had have been at get togethers, river floats, buddy trips etc. I can't remember ANY tournament that I enjoyed more than a G2G. Not one. I've had fun and been entertained but when you take the money stress out of an event, the attitudes of so many people relax. That relaxation moment, the deep exhale of shedding the week's stress with that first paddle stroke is what we should share. Community growth sells more kayaks. Community growth helps everyone, especially the hosting shop.

Tournament growth is done over prizes and cash. You have to get out of the mindset of trinkets if you want to get big. You have to develop relationships with companies who will put money into the prize pot, not just a paddle or cup. Forging large company relationships help. Prizes and the like work well for social divisions but if it is a payout you are after, thinking beyond just three or four local businesses is a must. The way I see Dallas and the Metro getting 100+ people to events is by convincing bass boat guys to come chase kayak money. Show them that they could win $5,000, $10,000 or more with a good stringer out of a kayak that has pedals or a paddle or even a trolling motor. A $4,000 kayak setup is a drop in the bucket to what these guys are spending. People "graduate" from kayak fishing to power boats for money and sponsorship opportunities. Cultivating those same sponsorships in kayaks will attract them back and gain a new market share.



So is it possible to do community growth and tournament growth at the same time? Sure but you have to think bigger. People won't show up in droves for trinkets and a chance unless there is another draw. A G2G with a tournament is a good start. People will travel from 2,000 miles away for a chance at $25,000. If you could combine the two on a big scale and do an Outdoor Retailer style paddle fest, tournament, bbq dinner and fund raiser all on the same weekend then you would have the ear of the big sponsors. Chambers of Commerce would fight over you if you held events at a local venue that could draw 500+ people over multiple days. Especially if they are getting hotel rooms. Have something for the whole family to do while one of them is out chasing a check. Make it a show!


So, that's my feedback. Take it for what you will. You have a few things in your favor and a few that aren't but with enough people it might just happen.


I've been in the fishing industry for many years, and I have to say you nailed it.

I would also like to invite the owners of the other retail stores in the DFW area, along with those who are running tournament trails to a sit down so we can discuss the future and how we can all work together. I've attempted this in the past, with no success, So I'm reaching out again to offer the opportunity. I can be reached at 817-503-2333. I hope we can put this together soon.


Great post Chris.

Rick, it's awesome to see you reach out like this.

To all the local shops pro-staffers, please let your shop owner know that Rick is reaching out.

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: jasoniam] #11137415 09/30/15 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted By: jasoniam
[quote=Rhino68W]
Well put. I think Sundays would should be an option too. I know it would have other conflicts for people, but for me and others it would be easier. That sweet spot is right on too. Makes it a lot easier for a newbie like me to go out there.


almost every Saturday is out for me in the fall, Sundays would be a lot easier to swing

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11137566 09/30/15 09:10 PM
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Good luck folks.
This has already turned into what the original poster stated it shouldn't.


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Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Jerry Hamon] #11137573 09/30/15 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted By: Jerry Hamon
Good luck folks.
This has already turned into what the original poster stated it shouldn't.


What do you mean, Jerry?

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Jerry Hamon] #11137577 09/30/15 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted By: Jerry Hamon
Good luck folks.
This has already turned into what the original poster stated it shouldn't.


Don't understand Jerry, care to elaborate?


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Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11137606 09/30/15 09:30 PM
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Guys, we can all work something out. This will be fun. We've got lots of stuff in the works. Those of you who know me, know that is my intention and it for sure is in the works. My weeks will free up some after this weekend and I plan to visit everyone and "talk". Until then tight lines!!!

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: APT] #11137669 09/30/15 10:00 PM
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Jerry Hamon Offline
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Originally Posted By: APT
Originally Posted By: Jerry Hamon
Good luck folks.
This has already turned into what the original poster stated it shouldn't.


Don't understand Jerry, care to elaborate?


More of an off line discussion but here goes.
Not aware that any other dealers were ever contacted in reference to this.
I've worked with both Mountain Sports and Backwoods on several occasions.


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Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Jerry Hamon] #11137727 09/30/15 10:33 PM
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APT Offline
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Originally Posted By: Jerry Hamon
Originally Posted By: APT
Originally Posted By: Jerry Hamon
Good luck folks.
This has already turned into what the original poster stated it shouldn't.


Don't understand Jerry, care to elaborate?


More of an off line discussion but here goes.
Not aware that any other dealers were ever contacted in reference to this.
I've worked with both Mountain Sports and Backwoods on several occasions.


You weren't there so I can understand why you weren't aware. Anyway, I am interested in talking to the other retail owners, and tournament trail owners to work out a program where all involved will benefit, and most of all it will benefit the kayak community and grow the sport.


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Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11137773 09/30/15 10:57 PM
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Kayak fishing tourneys are fatally flawed in the fact they can't do a live weigh in. It appears the norm is CPR for scoring. This system is OK for small, low dollar payouts but IMHO should definitely NOT be used in any tournament paying out over a few hundred bucks. It simply is not accurate and leaves doors wide open for cheating...as does the minimal off limits period. I'm not pointing fingers but I know I can catch a fish, CPR it, and catch that same fish again for another score. This is just one example. Most of our lakes are slot lakes so one can not retain any fish thus complicating the problem of weigh ins. The lakes chosen have logistic problems too. Big bucks tourneys need everyone starting from the same place, same time. What you end up with is people fishing on top of each other...kayaks only have so much range. Choosing a lake is another issue. I don't know DFW lakes but I always used the rule of thumb to keep them on lakes no bigger than a couple thousand acres. Finally, I suggest unless there are good fishing hot house lakes up in your neighborhood, ya'll need to start your tourneys later in the year. From what I read, events in Jan/Feb up your way can turn bad quick. Anyway, just chunking my $.02 into the mix to chew on.

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11137788 09/30/15 11:06 PM
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I could be wrong but I don't think any of the local (dfw) area shops have ever booked same day tournaments? I don't think this is the problem. I see the problem as turnout period. We are a very new scene up here as compared to other locations. Last year we had an average of 5 anglers show up for the Thursday nighters. This year we have averaged closer to 20. Things are growing guys!!! You can't just flip a switch and have 100 people show up. If we just continue to provide great tournaments by dedicated people and shops, that is all we can do. The lakes up here are not [censored] as stated above! We have some of the best lakes in the state! They just take time and hard work to figure out. I hope to see everyone out at the tournaments. I'm not trying to stir anything this is just all my Opinion.

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11137801 09/30/15 11:15 PM
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Regardless of the past, whatever that may be...

Rick has now extended an invite and it's up to each of you pro staffers and tournament organizers, to step up and help bring our scene together. I've talked to alot of you guys and we've all said it would be beneficial to have a sit down, to avoid conflicts and make sure everyone benefits.

I think This is a pivotal point for ALL of us, an opportunity to fix some things that need to be addressed. It seems like the majority of us are on the same page, so let's get together and iron things out.


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Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11137814 09/30/15 11:24 PM
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I will be there! let me know when.

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Jason Delfraisse] #11137832 09/30/15 11:34 PM
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yakintime Offline
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Originally Posted By: Jason Delfraisse
I could be wrong but I don't think any of the local (dfw) area shops have ever booked same day tournaments? I don't think this is the problem. I see the problem as turnout period. We are a very new scene up here as compared to other locations. Last year we had an average of 5 anglers show up for the Thursday nighters. This year we have averaged closer to 20. Things are growing guys!!! You can't just flip a switch and have 100 people show up. If we just continue to provide great tournaments by dedicated people and shops, that is all we can do. The lakes up here are not [censored] as stated above! We have some of the best lakes in the state! They just take time and hard work to figure out. I hope to see everyone out at the tournaments. I'm not trying to stir anything this is just all my Opinion.


I fully agree Jason! As I read the founder of KATS post early in this thread (grassroots started it all!) I want to applaud you and your co-hosts efforts with the Working Man's Series. You have introduced well over 100 kayak fishing folks to enjoyable casual tournament opportunities - right here in North Texas. Now we're seeing some of them enter the Working Man's Challenge (an official Kayak Fishing Tournament!) to help raise money for HOW (Heros on the Water). In my opinion there is nothing "wrong" with DFW Kayak Fishing Tournaments. We are definitely growing and I am certain that your efforts and those of the other volunteers who have been supporting organized kayak fishing over the years have created a foundation that others will benefit from. Hat's off to you all!

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: The Black Hammer] #11137973 10/01/15 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted By: The Black Hammer
Guys, we can all work something out. This will be fun. We've got lots of stuff in the works. Those of you who know me, know that is my intention and it for sure is in the works. My weeks will free up some after this weekend and I plan to visit everyone and "talk". Until then tight lines!!!


I'm with you on this! Yahoo!

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Jason Delfraisse] #11137981 10/01/15 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted By: Jason Delfraisse
I will be there! let me know when.

Ditto - I'd recommend somewhere centrally located to get the best turn out.......maybe a restaurant?

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11137987 10/01/15 12:49 AM
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Awesome, let's get this rolling!!

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: ETBA] #11137989 10/01/15 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted By: ETBA
Regardless of the past, whatever that may be...

Rick has now extended an invite and it's up to each of you pro staffers and tournament organizers, to step up and help bring our scene together. I've talked to alot of you guys and we've all said it would be beneficial to have a sit down, to avoid conflicts and make sure everyone benefits.

I think This is a pivotal point for ALL of us, an opportunity to fix some things that need to be addressed. It seems like the majority of us are on the same page, so let's get together and iron things out.


In my opinion the past is a good record of the efforts for those who have contributed so far .....that's all I'm sayin'

The future is bright! So we can all be on board - what are the problems we will be addressing Eric?

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11138029 10/01/15 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted By: yakintime
Originally Posted By: ETBA
Regardless of the past, whatever that may be...

Rick has now extended an invite and it's up to each of you pro staffers and tournament organizers, to step up and help bring our scene together. I've talked to alot of you guys and we've all said it would be beneficial to have a sit down, to avoid conflicts and make sure everyone benefits.

I think This is a pivotal point for ALL of us, an opportunity to fix some things that need to be addressed. It seems like the majority of us are on the same page, so let's get together and iron things out.


In my opinion the past is a good record of the efforts for those who have contributed so far .....that's all I'm sayin'

The future is bright! So we can all be on board - what are the problems we will be addressing Eric?


I wouldn't necessarily call them problems, but possible improvements.

Beyond scheduling I'd say an important thing to discuss would be all of our tournament locations to cover as much of our region as possible.
Also, the key would be everyone there discussing and voicing whatever their concerns are. I can't predict what that may be.


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Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11138087 10/01/15 01:31 AM
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I am in Hunt County and I'd like to get involved. Where can I get info? Thanks.


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Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11138125 10/01/15 01:48 AM
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Great! How 'bout week after next to give folks a chance to work on their schedules. I suggest Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday (Oct 13, 14 or 15)evening at a restaurant somewhere between Dallas and Fort Worth.

May I suggest Grapevine or Arlington?

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11138140 10/01/15 01:53 AM
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I guess we can do it Thursday and I'll bring a calander..

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: yakintime] #11138155 10/01/15 01:57 AM
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Originally Posted By: yakintime
Great! How 'bout week after next to give folks a chance to work on their schedules. I suggest Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday (Oct 13, 14 or 15)evening at a restaurant somewhere between Dallas and Fort Worth.

May I suggest Grapevine or Arlington?


I'm not gonna speak for everyone, as it's not my place. I'd recommend contacting Rick at the number he provided, since he put the invite out there. Maybe you guys can get a date setup and let us tournament organizers know so we can be present as well.


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Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11138173 10/01/15 02:03 AM
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I understand Erik, I don't expect you to speak for anyone else. Rick - chime in. Unfortunately a phone call won't communicate with all of the interested parties. So for all of your posters on this.... If another time is better, that's great. This is just a suggestion to get things rolling.

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: yakintime] #11138234 10/01/15 02:22 AM
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Originally Posted By: yakintime
I understand Erik, I don't expect you to speak for anyone else. Rick - chime in. Unfortunately a phone call won't communicate with all of the interested parties. So for all of your posters on this.... If another time is better, that's great. This is just a suggestion to get things rolling.


PM sent.


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Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: The Black Hammer] #11138406 10/01/15 04:38 AM
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Originally Posted By: The Black Hammer
I guess we can do it Thursday and I'll bring a calander..

If that works for the rest of the folks posting up it's good for me. What do the rest of you tournament organizers and shop folks think? Do we need more time to plan this meeting? Any conflicts or other concerns or suggestions?

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11138412 10/01/15 04:46 AM
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I'm in on this lets get it rolling, as much as our Thurs night tournament has grown this year I believe if we have a group working together to get the DFW scene together we will have a bright future for everyone .

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11138439 10/01/15 05:57 AM
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OK this is looking good. but there are 2 things that are key IMO.
1. A rookie/amateur/social division is a MUST to grow this sport. If you don't agree look at the ATX scene vs. ours. Pretty cut and dry. Social divisions works period.
2. Whose going to be the one neutral individual or team that going to be the Tourney Director/s. Will they get payed? You have to have a non bias to any shop person to run it.
Going to bed ill elaborate in the morning if needed.

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: The Ninja] #11138489 10/01/15 10:36 AM
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Separate divisions works with numbers. Its hard to have more then one division with five anglers....Great idea when we can build participation though! It does work well with KATS.

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11138570 10/01/15 12:05 PM
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I vote for torchy's tacos in grapevine! Thursday the 15th of October 8pm

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11138707 10/01/15 01:15 PM
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I for one hope this works out, but also hoping for all the right reasons. Several of us have ran tournaments over the years, and do not think the issue is with sponsorship. Dallas has some of the best Kayak dealers around and really supports the community. The normal issue is time, money and effort involved, if someone thinks you are going to get rich running these please try and run one.

Today there are several small tournaments and I feel they have all done well, but here again this is because the support of dealers and the people running them! Also have several really large ones if you are willing to travel around to make these.

Lately have been asked by several high school clubs wanting to get into the sport and start tournaments, but these are easier as it is normally a teacher running these and is part of a program, this can only help out the sport.

If you want to see something larger, I feel you will need to find someone that is willing to work for free and is extremely invested in it for the long haul, at least 2 - 3 years. Do not feel sponsorship is or will be the issue, just have to find someone that has the time and really wants to see something like this in the DFW area.

Just my 2 cents worth


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Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11138737 10/01/15 01:33 PM
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I'd like to get involved.


GOD & Guns!
Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Jason Delfraisse] #11138765 10/01/15 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted By: Jason Delfraisse
I vote for torchy's tacos in grapevine! Thursday the 15th of October 8pm

And all kayakers should stand out front with Kayaks in hand chanting!!!!!
coach


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Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11138863 10/01/15 02:26 PM
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Hey guys, I got a chance to participate in the majority of the tournaments that Todd held this year and enjoyed them all. My suggestion is for the tournament organizers to put together a survey for the guys interested in fishing tournaments or who have participated in tournaments in the DFW area to see what makes them decide on why they fish it or not. Post the survey on a separate thread here in the kayak section and ask people to share the survey on other social media outlets. Hopefully the organizers get some idea from the guys participating/interested in the tourney scene to help build it even further than it is right now.

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Jason Delfraisse] #11138890 10/01/15 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: Jason Delfraisse
I vote for torchy's tacos in grapevine! Thursday the 15th of October 8pm

Is this a good time and venue to start working on this? I can make it work. Feedback encouraged.......

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11138998 10/01/15 03:24 PM
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Don't know where tochy's is but I do know that Fuzzy's on 121 and Glade in Grapevine has a patio

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11138999 10/01/15 03:24 PM
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I think a meeting is needed on several matters here but it needs to be private between store owners and their organizers. A PM would be good idea to set the time and date.

I'm headed to the coast the 12-18. Good luck guys! I've got salt on the brain for the next couple weeks and 2016 season is the last thing on my mind.

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11139022 10/01/15 03:37 PM
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My two cents. As a relatively new kayaker and amateur fisherman at best. The entry fee is the deterrent for me. I have a hard time dishing out $50-75 plus a registration fee for a series when I know I'll never win anything because of my lack of skills as a fisherman. Yes, yes, I know. time on the water etc. I've done several of the Mariner Sails sponsored working mans fun tourneys, but they are free. I just signed up for my first paid tournament this weekend, but its supporting H.O.W so I don't mind donating to the cause.

I think a way to grow the tourney trail is to help new fisherman become better fisherman so that they feel that they might have a chance if fortune shines on them on any given day. I know that Jason recently held a clinic about fishing deep with Jigs. More in store or better yet on the water clinics that actually show people how to become better fisherman would be awesome. Heck I would love to literally follow some of you guys around in my kayak as you fished and just ask questions as you went about your business so that I could better understand various techniques and ask why you choosing a particular technique at a particular time or fishing a particular area as opposed to another area.


Kevin

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Todd] #11139121 10/01/15 04:28 PM
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yakintime Offline
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Originally Posted By: Todd
I think a meeting is needed on several matters here but it needs to be private between store owners and their organizers. A PM would be good idea to set the time and date.

I'm headed to the coast the 12-18. Good luck guys! I've got salt on the brain for the next couple weeks and 2016 season is the last thing on my mind.


That was recently suggested to me by another shop owner......I prefer the open format for now.........I agree, there will be a time for that but I'm really liking all of the feedback and new suggestions we are seeing here. So for now, I'm an inclusive open forum vote!

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11139122 10/01/15 04:28 PM
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We will be hosting more clinics at the shop Kevin. One a month actually. This months will be on the water Saturday, during the gtg. Stay tuned for the next one. As I know you fill be fishing. As for following people around unless it's a serious tournament I have no problems explaining who what where when and why I am doing what ever it may be. Just ask!

Good info Kevin thank you!

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Jason Delfraisse] #11139166 10/01/15 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted By: Jason Delfraisse
We will be hosting more clinics at the shop Kevin. One a month actually. This months will be on the water Saturday, during the gtg. Stay tuned for the next one. As I know you fill be fishing. As for following people around unless it's a serious tournament I have no problems explaining who what where when and why I am doing what ever it may be. Just ask!

Good info Kevin thank you!

Yep same goes for me although I don't know how much you can learn from me lol. But seriously that is one of the main goals of the Thurs night tournaments is to let new people learn and ask questions never feel like there is a dumb question we all have different ways that we do things and different techniques that we are comfortable with so talk to as many people as you can spend as much time on the water as you can learning and trying new techniques .

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: yakintime] #11139170 10/01/15 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted By: yakintime
Originally Posted By: Todd
I think a meeting is needed on several matters here but it needs to be private between store owners and their organizers. A PM would be good idea to set the time and date.

I'm headed to the coast the 12-18. Good luck guys! I've got salt on the brain for the next couple weeks and 2016 season is the last thing on my mind.


That was recently suggested to me by another shop owner......I prefer the open format for now.........I agree, there will be a time for that but I'm really liking all of the feedback and new suggestions we are seeing here. So for now, I'm an inclusive open forum vote!


I have to agree with yakintime...an open forum where we can take everyone's ideas into consideration is a good way to make these events something that everyone will love and enjoy. The amount of knowledge we can all gain from a public open form can be unreal!

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Jason Delfraisse] #11139232 10/01/15 05:07 PM
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Todd Offline
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Originally Posted By: Jason Delfraisse
Originally Posted By: yakintime
Originally Posted By: Todd™
I think a meeting is needed on several matters here but it needs to be private between store owners and their organizers. A PM would be good idea to set the time and date.

I'm headed to the coast the 12-18. Good luck guys! I've got salt on the brain for the next couple weeks and 2016 season is the last thing on my mind.


That was recently suggested to me by another shop owner......I prefer the open format for now.........I agree, there will be a time for that but I'm really liking all of the feedback and new suggestions we are seeing here. So for now, I'm an inclusive open forum vote!


I have to agree with yakintime...an open forum where we can take everyone's ideas into consideration is a good way to make these events something that everyone will love and enjoy. The amount of knowledge we can all gain from a public open form can be unreal!

Contestant input is needed on what they want out of a tourney. I'm all open for that type of discussion. Those are not "the matters" I was thinking need to be private.

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Todd] #11139253 10/01/15 05:14 PM
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Open forms a great! However, when you are trying to organize something, 1,000 conflicting ideas doesn't do any good. Nobody wants to sit through a six hour meeting and accomplish nothing....

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11139423 10/01/15 06:32 PM
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If all retailer decide to co-host what would the trail be governed by? What would the trail be called?

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11140452 10/02/15 02:18 AM
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Not everyone who says they will do something will actually fallow through. Also,
to many have had different motives and conflics is my best answer to the question possed.
IMO a tourneys needs to be fun and the water needs to be primo to keep the average tourney angler coming back for more. No one can control the weather of course :-/
Eventually the compitition will demand larger payouts and prizes n rightfuly so. I foresee $10k 1st place tourneys, Hobie PAs & or a trucks.

I see it happening already. Clicks and bad character have slowed the growth of the existing yak tourneys on some truly great Texas waters IMO. But there is still hope. The potential is there and when the right group of folks work together, it will happen. wink


Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11140719 10/02/15 05:17 AM
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Yall work out the details and then I'm going to come out of retirement and spank your sorry butts! banana

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: H.Town_paddler] #11140723 10/02/15 05:22 AM
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Well come on with it Dan!

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Jason Delfraisse] #11140826 10/02/15 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted By: Jason Delfraisse
We will be hosting more clinics at the shop Kevin. One a month actually. This months will be on the water Saturday, during the gtg. Stay tuned for the next one. As I know you fill be fishing. As for following people around unless it's a serious tournament I have no problems explaining who what where when and why I am doing what ever it may be. Just ask!



Actually the next clinic is the 20th at 6:30 p.m and it is a rep from Lowrance teaching us all about marine electronics.

Last edited by Jerry Hamon; 10/02/15 11:28 AM.

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Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Jerry Hamon] #11140969 10/02/15 01:00 PM
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yakintime Offline
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Originally Posted By: Jerry Hamon
Originally Posted By: Jason Delfraisse
We will be hosting more clinics at the shop Kevin. One a month actually. This months will be on the water Saturday, during the gtg. Stay tuned for the next one. As I know you fill be fishing. As for following people around unless it's a serious tournament I have no problems explaining who what where when and why I am doing what ever it may be. Just ask!



Actually the next clinic is the 20th at 6:30 p.m and it is a rep from Lowrance teaching us all about marine electronics.


My my, there is a LOT going on. My thanks to Jerry and Jason for tirelessly giving back to the kayak fishing community with a wide variety of support!
Marine Electronics has been on of the most asked for clinics......and I might say the most difficult to organize. Jerry persevered an now we have one! And did I mention that Jason is also cooking BRISKET for the HOW G2G? Well he is! These guys are ......smokin'!

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: The Ninja] #11141408 10/02/15 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted By: The Ninja
If all retailer decide to co-host what would the trail be governed by? What would the trail be called?


My suggestion for government one tournament Coordinator and each retailer appoints a tournament director this way when Retailer A has an event that director runs the weigh in with the other directors assisting to lessen the burden on one person. The coordinator would then coordinate prizes, advertisement, entertainment/food and meetings for each event with the owners. This might allow the directors and coordinator by assisting each other to actually participate in the events. This would also allow the Owners to be one step back and have an independent board of directors that would just come to them when it is time to contact vendors for sponsorship prizes.

My suggestion for a name DFWKRT Dallas Fort Worth Kayak Retailers Trail, the reason I say Trail instead of Tournament Trail is then the retailers can decide to add alternative events for example something similar to KATS teams as another way to enhance the experience and include more participants once they have something ironed out and running smoothly.

My 2 cents and change, thanks to the owners for stepping up to put something together our region can appreciate and enjoy.


Bert

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"Beware the lolipop of mediocrity, one lick and you could suck forever" - unknown author
Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11141548 10/02/15 05:44 PM
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Thanks Bert! Great suggestions......another reason I love the open forum discovery process!
I like the name but let's substitute Fishing for Retailers - just my opinion.......

Last edited by yakintime; 10/02/15 05:51 PM. Reason: change name.....
Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11141586 10/02/15 06:02 PM
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I agree with Mark we need one person to be a non-bias not associated with any shop be tournament director. Might be impossible to get.

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: The Ninja] #11141637 10/02/15 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted By: The Ninja
I agree with Mark we need one person to be a non-bias not associated with any shop be tournament director. Might be impossible to get.

That would be a great option too Ninja..............seems almost everyone has a bunch of sponsor mentions in their signatures so I agree......that option may be hard. Heck, just finding one person with that kind of time may be hard.

Mark had quite a few accurate observations. Having run and sponsored events personally, he has some good experience and a very real view of the challenges before us.

We'll be lucky if any one person or shop comes up with the perfect idea but something tells me we're getting some pretty good material to work with!

Thanks Ninja - PS - we'll miss you at the G2G this weekend, that pesky work is always getting in the way!

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11142944 10/03/15 03:51 PM
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2cents
I've read and agree with the tourney concepts presented in this forum. However, I have no interest in bass fishing but, would love to see this discussion to include crappie as well.
......again, just my 2cents

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11144570 10/04/15 06:23 PM
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Backwoods is certainly on board with a meeting to discuss the future of tournaments and a coordinated effort to put together a more consolidated and meaningful schedule of tournaments in the DFW/North Texas area. Rick, I sent you a PM.

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11148297 10/06/15 04:03 PM
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yakintime Offline
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Are any of the Fort Worth Area Shop Owners considering the proposed Thursday the 15th of October discovery meeting in Grapevine? If not, do you have an alternative date/location suggestion?

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11148382 10/06/15 04:46 PM
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Theres been a lot of talk about whats wrong with the kayak tournament scene in North Texas. I watched the conversation go back and forth and many good ideas have been brought to the table. People have ask me for my opinion so here it is.

I dont think theres anything wrong with the way things are right now, except maybe we all need to be a little better at planning when our events are to take place. Look, as I see it everyone involved is trying their best to support the kayak community. I just dont think there is one answer to the question. Theres going to be many things tried. Some will succeed, some will not. The customers and the community will decide what they want.

As for the business owners, we have employees, family, and customers to take care of, and all of us do that a little differently. Sometime things appear to conflict with other businesses, but its never intentional. We are all professionals and can work through any issues of concerns we have.

I think the kayak community is best served to have as many active participants as possible coming up with things to do and different flavors. Just think if Baskin Robbins only had one flavor...pretty boring.

We at APT will continue to be an active member of the kayak community by offering activities, education, and fellowship. We will strive to insure that our activities dont infringe on others whenever possible.

We wish everyone involved the best.


Rick Wallace
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Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: APT] #11148647 10/06/15 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted By: APT
Theres been a lot of talk about whats wrong with the kayak tournament scene in North Texas. I watched the conversation go back and forth and many good ideas have been brought to the table. People have ask me for my opinion so here it is.

I dont think theres anything wrong with the way things are right now, except maybe we all need to be a little better at planning when our events are to take place. Look, as I see it everyone involved is trying their best to support the kayak community. I just dont think there is one answer to the question. Theres going to be many things tried. Some will succeed, some will not. The customers and the community will decide what they want.

As for the business owners, we have employees, family, and customers to take care of, and all of us do that a little differently. Sometime things appear to conflict with other businesses, but its never intentional. We are all professionals and can work through any issues of concerns we have.

I think the kayak community is best served to have as many active participants as possible coming up with things to do and different flavors. Just think if Baskin Robbins only had one flavor...pretty boring.

We at APT will continue to be an active member of the kayak community by offering activities, education, and fellowship. We will strive to insure that our activities dont infringe on others whenever possible.

We wish everyone involved the best.


I couldn't agree more Rick! Shop and potential participant's input are invaluable in helping formulate a successful program. Are you able to make the proposed Oct 15th Grapevine discovery meeting? If not, is there another date that is more convenient?

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: yakintime] #11148665 10/06/15 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted By: yakintime
Originally Posted By: APT
Theres been a lot of talk about whats wrong with the kayak tournament scene in North Texas. I watched the conversation go back and forth and many good ideas have been brought to the table. People have ask me for my opinion so here it is.

I dont think theres anything wrong with the way things are right now, except maybe we all need to be a little better at planning when our events are to take place. Look, as I see it everyone involved is trying their best to support the kayak community. I just dont think there is one answer to the question. Theres going to be many things tried. Some will succeed, some will not. The customers and the community will decide what they want.

As for the business owners, we have employees, family, and customers to take care of, and all of us do that a little differently. Sometime things appear to conflict with other businesses, but its never intentional. We are all professionals and can work through any issues of concerns we have.

I think the kayak community is best served to have as many active participants as possible coming up with things to do and different flavors. Just think if Baskin Robbins only had one flavor...pretty boring.

We at APT will continue to be an active member of the kayak community by offering activities, education, and fellowship. We will strive to insure that our activities dont infringe on others whenever possible.

We wish everyone involved the best.


I couldn't agree more Rick! Shop and potential participant's input are invaluable in helping formulate a successful program. Are you able to make the proposed Oct 15th Grapevine discovery meeting? If not, is there another date that is more convenient?


I won't be able to make it. Don't know if any of our staff guys can make it. Good luck at the meeting.


Rick Wallace
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Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: APT] #11148706 10/06/15 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted By: APT
Originally Posted By: yakintime
Originally Posted By: APT



I couldn't agree more Rick! Shop and potential participant's input are invaluable in helping formulate a successful program. Are you able to make the proposed Oct 15th Grapevine discovery meeting? If not, is there another date that is more convenient?


I won't be able to make it. Don't know if any of our staff guys can make it. Good luck at the meeting.


Thanks for the heads up Rick. Any other time work for you and your team?

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: yakintime] #11148725 10/06/15 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted By: yakintime
Originally Posted By: APT
Originally Posted By: yakintime
Originally Posted By: APT



I couldn't agree more Rick! Shop and potential participant's input are invaluable in helping formulate a successful program. Are you able to make the proposed Oct 15th Grapevine discovery meeting? If not, is there another date that is more convenient?


I won't be able to make it. Don't know if any of our staff guys can make it. Good luck at the meeting.


Thanks for the heads up Rick. Any other time work for you and your team?


We are in our busy season right now with all the fall tournaments, so not really. We have our plans for the rest of the year, and they are posted here on TFF. If we plan anything else before we post it we will insure the date doesn't conflict with anyone else.


Rick Wallace
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Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: APT] #11148740 10/06/15 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: APT
Theres been a lot of talk about whats wrong with the kayak tournament scene in North Texas. I watched the conversation go back and forth and many good ideas have been brought to the table. People have ask me for my opinion so here it is.

I dont think theres anything wrong with the way things are right now, except maybe we all need to be a little better at planning when our events are to take place. Look, as I see it everyone involved is trying their best to support the kayak community. I just dont think there is one answer to the question. Theres going to be many things tried. Some will succeed, some will not. The customers and the community will decide what they want.

As for the business owners, we have employees, family, and customers to take care of, and all of us do that a little differently. Sometime things appear to conflict with other businesses, but its never intentional. We are all professionals and can work through any issues of concerns we have.

I think the kayak community is best served to have as many active participants as possible coming up with things to do and different flavors. Just think if Baskin Robbins only had one flavor...pretty boring.

We at APT will continue to be an active member of the kayak community by offering activities, education, and fellowship. We will strive to insure that our activities dont infringe on others whenever possible.

We wish everyone involved the best.


Couldn't agree more...the way I see it is that everyone will have plenty of events and things going on to make the kayak scene hold up to its potential.

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11153776 10/09/15 02:14 PM
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We have positive responses from Mariner Sails and Backwoods to attend the proposed discovery meeting in Grapevine on Oct 15th at 7pm. I'd like to get a head count of other interested folks so we can make plans at one of the Grapevine locations suggested. If you plan to attend this meeting please post up for a head count. Thanks to all of the folks who have posted ideas and suggestions and thanks to Coach P for getting this ball rolling!

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11153867 10/09/15 02:56 PM
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I'll be there banana banana banana

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11153980 10/09/15 03:34 PM
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Here is my input on lakes if Mariner Sails and Backwoods decide to work together on a trail. Dallas - Lewisville, Grapevine, Lavon, & Ray Hubbard. Fort Worth - Benbrook, Worth, Eagle Mountain, and Arlington. All I did was just grabbed the surrounding big lakes from each city/county.




Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11154137 10/09/15 04:46 PM
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I've gotten some phone calls of people coming to this, lots of interest so.......don't be shy, post up if you want to come!

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11154453 10/09/15 07:02 PM
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I wish I could make it to just sit back and listen. I will be in crummy Minnesota though! I like the idea of having a Fort Worth trail. Then one day we could have a battle of the cites as a neutral lake.

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11154633 10/09/15 08:07 PM
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Is this meeting for bass fishing only???

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Rhino68W] #11154684 10/09/15 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted By: Rhino68W
I wish I could make it to just sit back and listen. I will be in crummy Minnesota though! I like the idea of having a Fort Worth trail. Then one day we could have a battle of the cites as a neutral lake.


Athens would be a good lake to be the neutral lake. I like having one trail for the DFW area with those lakes I mentioned, gives the chance for everyone to experience Dallas and Fort Worth area lakes if they haven't fished them.

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: CrappieTX] #11154886 10/09/15 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: CropieTX
Is this meeting for bass fishing only???


Bass fishing is what most people think of when they think tournament but this is a discovery meeting so all input is welcome. Bring your ideas!

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11155496 10/10/15 12:47 PM
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I'll be there

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11163497 10/14/15 03:48 PM
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OK folks, let's post up. Fuzzy's or Torchy's (Vote for one) in Grapevine for a 7pm Meeting tomorrow Oct 15th as proposed. Most votes wins for location! We'll announce the location via this thread at 6pm today!

DON'T BE SHY......Like there's a chance of that!

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11163557 10/14/15 04:20 PM
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Torchy's just because I've never been..

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Torchy's


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I'll vote for Fuzzy's since I don't know where Torchy's is lol

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11163845 10/14/15 05:48 PM
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Hey folks.......Can we back this up 2-3 weeks? It seems that many of the interested parties will be available later but not tomorrow. Let me know.

Thanks!

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Yes, a later date would also work!

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Is ok with me

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OK - We'll back it up a bit and I'll get with you on an alternate date - probably a Thursday as well.....

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11164551 10/14/15 09:58 PM
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I've kind of been reading this, and would really like to make a event or two if scheduling allows.

But one thing that's caught my attention through this, is the idea of breaking your tournament out between amateurs, and "experienced tournament anglers." I don't know how you'd really differentiate between the two. IMO, the distance between the two is alot smaller than folks are thinking. Sure there's a few "big" names on here that might show up to a event or two and blow everyone away, but at the end of the day, you really have just about as good of chance as everyone else at catching a winning bass.


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Don't forget about us kayak anglers who live just outside of the DFW area.


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Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Nocona Brian] #11166036 10/15/15 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted By: NoconaBrian
I've kind of been reading this, and would really like to make a event or two if scheduling allows.

But one thing that's caught my attention through this, is the idea of breaking your tournament out between amateurs, and "experienced tournament anglers." I don't know how you'd really differentiate between the two. IMO, the distance between the two is alot smaller than folks are thinking. Sure there's a few "big" names on here that might show up to a event or two and blow everyone away, but at the end of the day, you really have just about as good of chance as everyone else at catching a winning bass.
You will have some people that want to fish tournaments that don't have the confidence to fish a larger tournament or just don't want the pressure of a full blown tournament so you have a "social " division that allows those people to participate and gain confidence in fishing a tournament series . We do have some great sticks in our area but they have bad days also and at the end of the day anyone could win a tournament . The thing we noticed with the Thurs night series is peoples confidence building as the year went along some had just started bass fishing some had just started kayaking and it is neat to watch them grow, so by having a separate division in larger tournaments hopefully it allows it to grow into something great just my 2 cents

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Nocona Brian] #11166268 10/15/15 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted By: NoconaBrian
I've kind of been reading this, and would really like to make a event or two if scheduling allows.

But one thing that's caught my attention through this, is the idea of breaking your tournament out between amateurs, and "experienced tournament anglers." I don't know how you'd really differentiate between the two. IMO, the distance between the two is alot smaller than folks are thinking. Sure there's a few "big" names on here that might show up to a event or two and blow everyone away, but at the end of the day, you really have just about as good of chance as everyone else at catching a winning bass.


This will be a work in progress. Folks who want less pressure in a free format or folks new to the sport will be able to participate in the recreational group like Mariner Sails Workingman Tournaments have been held recently and folks who want to fish for a chance at more "rewards" (no big name required!) can enter the "pro" division by paying into the payout pot via an entry fee. We're hoping folks will be "self - determining". Any input is always welcome.

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: yakintime] #11166753 10/15/15 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted By: yakintime
Originally Posted By: NoconaBrian
I've kind of been reading this, and would really like to make a event or two if scheduling allows.

But one thing that's caught my attention through this, is the idea of breaking your tournament out between amateurs, and "experienced tournament anglers." I don't know how you'd really differentiate between the two. IMO, the distance between the two is alot smaller than folks are thinking. Sure there's a few "big" names on here that might show up to a event or two and blow everyone away, but at the end of the day, you really have just about as good of chance as everyone else at catching a winning bass.


This will be a work in progress. Folks who want less pressure in a free format or folks new to the sport will be able to participate in the recreational group like Mariner Sails Workingman Tournaments have been held recently and folks who want to fish for a chance at more "rewards" (no big name required!) can enter the "pro" division by paying into the payout pot via an entry fee. We're hoping folks will be "self - determining". Any input is always welcome.



I feel like I've been an "amateur" fishing with the more serious anglers for quite some time. I have a ton to learn still, and I'm sure most will agree, you can always learn more. Self-determining which division you feel comfortable fishing I think is the way to go. Making events as low risk and inviting as possible will definitely attract anglers that are new to the sport. You'll still have a few folks that may sandbag and try to win the amateur division if the prizes are attractive enough (my Palestine debacle), but I think for the most part, individuals will just decide how they feel about each individual event. I think the choice is driven by a calculated risk depending on the number of entries and possible payout more than a "who is fishing" each division. They may also be more likely to participate on lakes they are unfamiliar with. I agree that once a person has fished a few events to get more comfortable with formats, rules, and such; they have just as good a chance at winning as anyone else.


Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11167707 10/16/15 02:01 AM
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Those are good replies. I wasn't trying to shoot it down, just didn't know how you'd keep them separate. More of keeping better guys from sandbagging.


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Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11171015 10/18/15 04:08 PM
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OK I've remained silent. Here's my opinions. First DFW is huge. A guy in Weatherford has a hard time fishing say Purtis Creek. Likewise a guy in Kaufman has a hard time hitting Amon Carter. An East and west division could help. Second, the entry fees. We already have 2 high risk high reward series here. Example, maybe Mariner has an eastern series with say a $30 entry. Backwoods has a western series. 4 events each, with overlapping dates to keep calendar as clear as possible. After those 4 events an aoy is claimed. Then there is a east vs west event similar to north vs south. Third, and maybe most importantly study the calendar and choose dates carefully. Before I get bashed I know there are a ton of events all the time. Conflicting dates only hurt these events. We as tournament anglers trust the TD's to plan accordingly. Not bashing anyone but yesterday is a good example, two events I wanted to fish but had to choose one. Most everyone knows I'm a CCKF guy but would really love to support APT as well. I'll be supporting Backwoods Sat. I love fishing tournaments not biased which. Yesterday a total of 25 guys fished tournaments, those same 25 guys could and probably would of fished both if they had the opportunity.

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11172124 10/19/15 10:48 AM
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How many were at Arlington John?

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Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: John Stockman] #11172584 10/19/15 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted By: John Stockman
OK I've remained silent. Here's my opinions. First DFW is huge. A guy in Weatherford has a hard time fishing say Purtis Creek. Likewise a guy in Kaufman has a hard time hitting Amon Carter. An East and west division could help. Second, the entry fees. We already have 2 high risk high reward series here. Example, maybe Mariner has an eastern series with say a $30 entry. Backwoods has a western series. 4 events each, with overlapping dates to keep calendar as clear as possible. After those 4 events an aoy is claimed. Then there is a east vs west event similar to north vs south. Third, and maybe most importantly study the calendar and choose dates carefully. Before I get bashed I know there are a ton of events all the time. Conflicting dates only hurt these events. We as tournament anglers trust the TD's to plan accordingly. Not bashing anyone but yesterday is a good example, two events I wanted to fish but had to choose one. Most everyone knows I'm a CCKF guy but would really love to support APT as well. I'll be supporting Backwoods Sat. I love fishing tournaments not biased which. Yesterday a total of 25 guys fished tournaments, those same 25 guys could and probably would of fished both if they had the opportunity.


How about a Sunday trail, since all the tournaments being held now are on Saturday? Just a suggestion. I have no preference but maybe to combat the problem of overlapping events.

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Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: John Stockman] #11173041 10/19/15 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted By: John Stockman
19
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Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11179150 10/22/15 05:39 PM
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You guys are on the right track. I see a lot of similarities between where you guys are now and where we were at one point. As mentioned, start off grass roots and keep it going no matter what. If 85% of attendance is he same 25 guys over and over again for a year or two, so be it. Build that core group of anglers and expand off of that. Anglers will come and go for one reason or another but as long as you keep adding to the core group, slowly but surely, you will be there. Put ego's aside and be respectful to one another. Act professional but at the same time, have a freaking blast at the events. It is impossible to make everyone happy so keep that in mind BUT it is imperative that you guys work together and listen to the anglers. Don't be afraid to take chances and try new things. It is ok to fail. It's better to try and fail, then to never try at all. If you fail, get off of your butt, make a change and move forward. You will not grow unless you able to do this. Get the youngsters involved. Community outreach is huge and we have seen several youngsters fish events with us. Some of those guys are starting to grow up and it's just a matter of time before they start really having success. Have a beer with your buddies afterwards but have respect for others, youngsters included, and don't get trashed or get high around everyone else. Keep that in your personal life. Sorry if this sounds like a corny motivational speech but when it all boils down to it, it works.

Just keep on going guys and you'll be there before you know it.


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Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11180326 10/23/15 05:00 AM
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I've only read through the first page of comments but I'll add some insight from my perspective.

KATS was built over many many years. It was only recently that it grew to 100+ anglers and even that turnout is only for the first few events. Don't lose sight of these facts and dont get discouraged over a 20 angler turnout.

Your events need to start out with someone local heading things up. Someone who is in touch with the fishing community on a personal level. Whether this person(s) works with a store or alone I don't think matters but they need to connect with the people and understand what is expected out of a series. Make no mistakes, its a full time job and grass roots is the best way to grow the scene.

Bite your tongues. If you're not going to give physical or monetary support to the tournament director, dont criticize what they are doing. This is especially true if you arent even fishing their events. Nothing discourages people from running events more than moaning and groaning, especially if you are paying money out of your own pocket to host things. I know because I ran and helped run our thursday nighters. As of now, our thursday nighters are non existent in part due to a few people who offered nothing more than complaints. Flat out I have better things to do than listen to a bunch of grown men complain about a $10 tournament and offer no real assistance.

You have to be willing to travel. With the exception of Town Lake and Decker, all other lakes are a minimum of 1 hour from austin. For 90% of everyone, Town Lake and Decker are at least 30 minutes with no traffic. With the recent "green" movement Bastrop doesnt stay hot in the winter either since the plant isnt generating. Decker has a power plant but it rarely gets used, and fayette is at least 1.5 hours from austin. True our lakes dont get as cold as DFW's but we still fight the cold and its not always like shooting fish in a barrell, trust me. Anyhow, our guys are willing to drive 1-4 hours for a tournament. No excuses, no complaints, just passion for tournaments and competing.

Also, dont think that ACK is dumping endless funds into KATS. For the most part they supply the labor and thats about it. Its really growing because of the anglers. When was the last time you saw an ad for KATS on the ACK website or facebook page?

Chris P. brought up motivation. What does motivate you guys? I can tell you most of the guys I know would fish KATS even if it was just a simple payout and no sponsors or raffles. Most of us honestly just enjoy being able to brag that we were the best for that one day, hanging out with friends, and having fun. Money, prizes, awards, are simply a bonus for us. I find it hard to believe a majority of guys in Texas are in it for big payouts but it seems to be a deciding factor for some. Look at the Texas turnout for the KBS event at Rayburn. Only a handful of guys from Texas even showed up and only I showed up from the Austin area. This could have been a HUGE payout event, so I dont get it. Im not bragging about us that showed, Im just stating my extreme disappointment in that turnout and the frustration it probably caused KBS.

Dont think a tournament scene will appear just because. You have to put in lots of hard work, hours, money, and thankless effort. Good luck fellas, I'd love to see the north texas scene explode.


Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: ebk06] #11180656 10/23/15 02:00 PM
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Great response Marcus! clap


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Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11180694 10/23/15 02:13 PM
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Without Dennis, starting and running KATS, it would have never gotten off the ground...yes, he had some help...but it was his vision and his hard work that made it work in the beginning, and if ACK had not taken over from Dennis...KATS would not be around in it's current form today. I think you have a better chance of getting a budget through Congress than getting 5 different stores to agree on a tournament series. It is hard enough to schedule and run a tournament series with one store, let alone 5 different stores. You need one store in charge that is willing to agree to put the time and resources into developing a tournament series and that includes getting the sponsors, providing the tournament staff, developing the tournament website, coming up with the resources to run the tournaments including how to collect the money via a secure website, the computers, the e-mails...all the necessary things for running a successful tournament series.

One store has to be in charge...if all stores are in charge...than no one is in charge...and nothing will become of this other than talk and wishful thinking.

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Jerry Hamon] #11180917 10/23/15 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted By: Jerry Hamon
Great response Marcus! clap



He has the wisdom of a 100 year old Flathead......that's for sure.

Ha Ha.....sometimes I make myself laugh.

Sorry to the Dallas crew for us stinky Austin guys muddying up your thread. Carry on.


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Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11181173 10/23/15 05:40 PM
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while I wont be accepting a nomination for speaker of the house or anything similar in congress anytime soon, I can confidently say that many positive steps have been made in the last few weeks. I would like to thank the pro-staff representing their sponsored stores for meeting and presenting to the local retailers. Without their hard work and dedication none of it would have been possible. I expect some details to be released soon, so stay tuned.

popcorn

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Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11181291 10/23/15 06:48 PM
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popcorn popcorn

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: RHerzog] #11181475 10/23/15 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted By: RHerzog
Originally Posted By: Jerry Hamon
Great response Marcus! clap



He has the wisdom of a 100 year old Flathead......that's for sure.

Ha Ha.....sometimes I make myself laugh.

Sorry to the Dallas crew for us stinky Austin guys muddying up your thread. Carry on.
Ya'll aren't stinking up the thread Ryan we all appreciate the input ideas are what we are looking for

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11186368 10/26/15 02:21 AM
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Let's keep this going. I've seen a ton of new faces his year. I think part of it is a credit to the Facebook site DFW Kayak Fishing. We excluded those stinky ATX guys lol. In all seriousness we are growing.

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11188685 10/27/15 03:42 AM
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I want to see bass at the scales keep your cameras at home

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Originally Posted By: Acts 4-11-12
I want to see bass at the scales keep your cameras at home


How do you propose that to happen without live wells?

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Any chance we could get a kayak tournament section on this forum? Think this would help, almost all trails have dates for next year and could post them here for everyone.


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Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Palovik] #11188884 10/27/15 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted By: Palovik
Any chance we could get a kayak tournament section on this forum? Think this would help, almost all trails have dates for next year and could post them here for everyone.
That's a great idea. The bass section has it why not us.

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Palovik] #11188950 10/27/15 12:38 PM
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Jerry Hamon Offline
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Originally Posted By: Palovik
Any chance we could get a kayak tournament section on this forum? Think this would help, almost all trails have dates for next year and could post them here for everyone.


How about it Robbie Milam???


Owner/Guide at River Crossing Guide Service

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Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #11190531 10/28/15 01:43 AM
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mjmfc Offline
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While I don't have the attention span or enough Xanax to read this whole thread, I've gathered enough to like where this is going. I don't have too many opinions on the where and how things get done because I'm not going to get involved in the nuts and bolts. I'll fish any trail any where I feel like is a good value and good times to be had. The thing that gets to me some is all the behind the scene whining and poisoning of others perceptions that goes on. There's absolutely no way that can be productive so just let that stuff and the ones who choose to perpetuate it go about their business..... For all you who don't know, CCKF has a DFW trail with major corporations as sponsors, high payouts, and is very well ran with Marshall boats on the lake keeping an eye out. You'll have a hard time finding a better value. There's room for another as well and I hope it happens. I'll donate my dollars for sure



Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Jerry Hamon] #11191282 10/28/15 01:45 PM
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Robbie Milam Offline
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Originally Posted By: Jerry Hamon
Originally Posted By: Palovik
Any chance we could get a kayak tournament section on this forum? Think this would help, almost all trails have dates for next year and could post them here for everyone.


How about it Robbie Milam???


Let me see what I can do

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #12872044 08/21/18 08:58 PM
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The Black Hammer Offline
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Good read for you newbies!!! banana banana banana

Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #12872082 08/21/18 09:41 PM
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Shaun Russell Offline
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The DFW tourney scene sure has came along way from those days!



And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.
Matthew 4:19
Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: The Black Hammer] #12872889 08/22/18 03:25 PM
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YakfishinTx81 Offline
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Definitely a good thread, rather confusing for a green horn like myself though. My questions i guess wold be: what would you reccomend for a relatively new kayak angler wanting to get my feet wet fishing some tournaments around the North Texas Area, i live in Fort Worth and am a life long fisherman, just recently joining the ranks of the kayak anglers. Any advice or direction would be greatly appreciated. I understand most of this years tourneys are coming to an end but i would like to try and get involved with a tournament series or kayak fishing club before the start of the next season series.


Ray
Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: YakfishinTx81] #12873058 08/22/18 05:40 PM
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Todd Offline
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Originally Posted By: YakfishTx81
Definitely a good thread, rather confusing for a green horn like myself though. My questions i guess wold be: what would you reccomend for a relatively new kayak angler wanting to get my feet wet fishing some tournaments around the North Texas Area, i live in Fort Worth and am a life long fisherman, just recently joining the ranks of the kayak anglers. Any advice or direction would be greatly appreciated. I understand most of this years tourneys are coming to an end but i would like to try and get involved with a tournament series or kayak fishing club before the start of the next season series.


Mariner Sails Workingmans tourneys. Can't beat a free tourney to wet your feet. There is one tomorrow night on Lake Arlington.

https://www.facebook.com/Marinersailsworkingmans/

Last edited by Todd; 08/22/18 05:41 PM.
Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #12873836 08/23/18 04:22 AM
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The Black Hammer Offline
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Yes, the Mariner Sail's working man's is a free tournament that welcomes anyone. You will find anglers from very skilled to beginners fishing these, because it's simply a way to wet a line with a few friends at the end of the work week. North Texas Kayak Championship's season has just ended and will be picking back up in late Feb/early March. Kayak Anglers of Fort Worth has a night tournament on Marine Creek This weekend, and a few more coming up for the rest of this year. Also never be afraid to come on here and see if anyone wants to fish on the weekend, we're always looking for people to fish with.

Last edited by The Black Hammer; 08/23/18 04:23 AM.
Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Todd] #12874572 08/23/18 08:47 PM
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YakfishinTx81 Offline
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awesome, thanks for the reply and info


Ray
Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: The Black Hammer] #12874579 08/23/18 08:57 PM
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Sounds like that is the way to go, i will definitely try to make it out to a Thursday night Tourney, and i would definitely be up for going out fishing with some more experienced anglers, im not a complete greenhorn, i have fished most of my life but just got into kayak fishing this summer, and i am always game to learn some new tips, techniques, tricks, etc... had some great luck fishing so far but i know that there is so much more to learn to be able to be competitive with experienced anglers. and i have some friends that i kayak fish with but we would loveto hang out and fish with other local guys as well. Thanks for the info and reply cheers


Ray
Re: What's wrong with DFW kayak tournaments? [Re: Coach P] #12875625 08/24/18 06:35 PM
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Finesse EMPEROR/ Dropshot King Offline
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Can we get some tournaments on Lake Arlington?

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