So what is your opinion on if they can see the hooks sticking out of the bait? After all the hooks are 10 times as wide diameter wise as line. Can they not see those too?

My own personal opinion is lighter line simpler enhances either castability or action of the bait. Visibility is way down the list.

Warden has spoken!!! Braid it is with no leader

Seriously...awesome discussion and thanks everyone for taking a second to post their thoughts. Learned quite a bit

I know you said no fluorocarbon, but I was using 20lb braid until I tried this. It's the best line I've ever used on a spinning reel and none of the problems most associate with fluoro on spinning gear.

http://www.berkley-fishing.com/berkley-line-fluorocarbon-berkley-trilene/1311935.html

"(no stretch or little stretch)"

False, it has the same amount of stretch as nylon mono and in some cases a little more or less depending on the brand being compared to. No such thing as "no" or "little".

hmmmm....I have not tried this line so I can't officially lump it into the junk category like the several other fluoros that I have tried.

I am far from a finesse angler though. My opinion might not have any merit to be honest.

Well it agrees with mine so we will go with that one! Ha

As with any discussion here, you are going to get a lot of different opinions and experiences. There are so many factors involved in any given situation that, really, it's hard to quantify specific outcomes unfortunately.

I am strictly speaking from my own personal experiences and training. I have been fortunate enough to spend my entire life fishing and in the last 5 years I have had some priceless access to manufacturers and their development teams/scientists. Seaguar would be a good example. If the lab coats at Seaguar and their world -class engineers say that their fluorocarbon is more invisible than mono and it stretches less, I am inclined to believe them. Especially after a bunch of really cool experiments that, in truth, contained a ton of fancy words that I didn't entirely understand LOL.

Of course they work for Seaguar, so there is bias. Perhaps they set the hook on this old angler.

Ultimately, there is the confidence factor, which I think is the most important component to all fishing. At the end of the day, if you are confident with your gear choices, your chances of catching fish increase dramatically.

The most quantifiable factor here, as you guys mentioned, is that smaller line helps with action on smaller baits. I think we at least all agree on that. Line choice doesn't matter so much as long as it is small in diameter.

I have just seen waaaay too many examples of fluoro out performing other line choices in finesse situations to conclude that it doesn't make any difference at all. I know I am not alone on that, either. Of course I could be under a spell, but if it gives me confidence then I am inclined to take that route.

Also, as stated, I don't worry so much about invisibility in certain situations. For example, spinnerbaits or fast moving baits. Fish dont really get a chance to investigate these baits and they attack in a more reactionary fashion.

Great topic. Lots of good input here.

I should also mention that I am a bit of a knot nerd.

I love elaborate rigging techniques and experimenting with crazy stuff.

Tying and rigging is one of my favorite pieces of the fishing game, so I don't mind all the extra work. I somehow find joy in it (a glutton for punishment indeed).

Not trying to be Devils advocate here but aren't pretty much all bites reactionary? This would explain why most bites occur on the initial fall of the bait. Now maybe I could just be one heckuva lucky caster and I throw it right in their mouth or they see the bait fluttering down and react to it. I just have a hard time believing a fish stops and says hey wait that is fishing line!!!! If they are smart enough to do that surely the red hook that I am sold on throwing really makes them skiddish.

There are definitely different types of bites.

Some fish smash a bait the second it hits the water.

In other situations, for example, a small soft plastic crawfish being dragged very slowly, the fish will move in and investigate. Sometimes they take a while before they make the decision to bite.

There are plenty of videos that show this behavior.

This is also why some anglers really stress about line invisibility and natural bait action via small line diameter. Finesse situations often involve fish that just won't bite. They follow baits, but don't bite.

And no, I don't think fish think to themselves "hey there is some fishing line attached to that crawfish, I'm not going to bite that!!!!"

We definitely shouldn't give them that much credit.

I do think that finicky fish that follow baits and don't commit easily are interested in investigating. If something doesn't seem right, they aren't going to commit.

Interestingly, this topic/debate is closely related to lure scents.

Some anglers believe that those finicky fish that follow baits and do a bunch of investigating are possibly put off by scent. This is why so many anglers stress about garlic scent, etc.

They could be put off by any factor, I suppose. The most natural presentation always seems to work best in those tough situations.

Says right on Seaguars site that fluoro does stretch. I've said it before fluoro or mono if the line is limber it stretches. Fluoro leader material is good stuff but the limbered up lines for spooling do stretch. The density improves sensitivity a bit.

Scent I believe in because I dip Copenhagen, slather on sunscren and bug spray, so sure covering all that up makes sense. Using. A slinky as fishing line doesn't