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How does rod action affect casting stroke?
#10785217
04/21/15 08:23 PM
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,238
RexW
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Here’s a casting question for you; “Should your casting stroke be changed or adjusted when you switch from casting a very “bendy rod” (soft action) to casting a very stiff (fast action) rod? If yes, what changes should be made?”Think about your answer before continuing… The general consensus of the first question tends to be something along the lines of “yes, of course you have to change your casting stroke to match the rod.” If you agree with this comment above, here’s a video for you to ponder: https://vimeo.com/35513634The guy that made it is a very good caster and an experienced instructor. He attached a bendy rod and a stiff rod to the same handle, so the casting stroke is identical for both rods. Using the same line and line length, he filmed the results. I’m surprised at the results and it makes me rethink my answers to the questions…. Just something for you to think about.
Fly Fishers International certified casting instructor TFO Rods pro staff
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Re: How does rod action affect casting stroke?
[Re: RexW]
#10785456
04/21/15 09:55 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 206
Capt. Brendan
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Outdoorsman
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That was pretty interesting Rex
USCG Licensed Captain & Fly Fishing Guide @ Fishing Bear Lodge
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Re: How does rod action affect casting stroke?
[Re: RexW]
#10785624
04/21/15 11:51 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 397
preast
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Angler
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Hmmm. I'm trying to estimate how much line he has out. It appears less than 25' of line past the tip, which isn't much really.
Not that I'm disagreeing with the point of it, but I'd like to see something like a 40+' cast. Lots changes when you get more line out.
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Re: How does rod action affect casting stroke?
[Re: RexW]
#10785634
04/21/15 11:58 PM
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 2,120
Brad R
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
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Rex, a great video, sort of mesmerizing.
Hmm? If you look carefully, the bendy rod does accelerate the line better as it takes the lead, most evident when viewing it as it comes from behind him to over his head. And, since the lines are of the same length, it isn't as if the "end result" can be altered as if measuring a trajectory landing, nor in this particular case do we actually see the end of the casts. In the end, both lines are extended forward and back.
I'd be curious, you don't quite give your conclusions away, what your take-away is?
There is simply no doubt that if we use a very loose analogy, that we'd all agree that there is an optimal spring resistance for a person of a particular weight jumping on a trampoline. One too springy or too firm would propel a jumper less high than at some optimal point along the power curve.
So, the whippiness of the one rod definitely seems to accelerate better. The question left is does it change the action one employs to take advantage of it, any aspects related to timing?
Very interesting! Brad
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Re: How does rod action affect casting stroke?
[Re: RexW]
#10786285
04/22/15 05:00 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,872
moonriver
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Re: How does rod action affect casting stroke?
[Re: preast]
#10787865
04/22/15 07:45 PM
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,238
RexW
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Not that I'm disagreeing with the point of it, but I'd like to see something like a 40+' cast. Lots changes when you get more line out.
Here you go: https://vimeo.com/35524148
Fly Fishers International certified casting instructor TFO Rods pro staff
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Re: How does rod action affect casting stroke?
[Re: Brad R]
#10787893
04/22/15 07:49 PM
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,238
RexW
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OP
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I'd be curious, you don't quite give your conclusions away, what your take-away is?
Not sure about my conclusions yet, I'm still pondering this... The softer rod does produce wider loops, but they are not as wide as I would have expected. Both rods create more "waves" in the line on rod leg side of the loop from tip bounce than I expected to see.
Fly Fishers International certified casting instructor TFO Rods pro staff
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Re: How does rod action affect casting stroke?
[Re: RexW]
#10792627
04/24/15 09:12 AM
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 2,120
Brad R
Extreme Angler
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Rex, another really good video.
What we do know, considering applicable physics and sports analogies, is that the "bendy" rod stores more elastic potential energy, passes it along to the line. So, as with, say, tennis rackets, modern materials can propel a tennis ball much faster than an old wooden version.
If the objects, a fly tied on a line, are being slung and were magically un-tethered at the right time, the trajectory would be longer than a "too" stiff rod. Well, unless it is too limp, like a noodle. There is some calculus at work here with a graph tracing a too limp, optimal, and too stiff curve.
Like a trampoline, too much "bendy" cannot overcome its load as good as an optimized one, so there are limits to how whippy a rod can be to be effective.
There is a timing aspect to all of this. Using spinning gear and a light action rod, the finger release point is farther forward in the cast (allowing the potential energy to unload) than if one were using a heavy action rod.
Brad
Last edited by Brad R; 04/24/15 09:13 AM.
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Re: How does rod action affect casting stroke?
[Re: RexW]
#10816404
05/04/15 04:01 AM
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,238
RexW
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OK, I've been pondering this one for a while and here are my thoughts about being able to make a good loop with two different rod actions that are cast together like the video...
Well, DUH!!!!!! Of course it can be done.
Here's why. For a slower action rod, the casting stroke needs to be longer and generally slower than the stroke needed to cast a faster action rod. However, the faster action rod will still cast fine with a longer than necessary stroke. The faster rod will not perform as well as it will with a shorter and more powerful stroke, but it will still throw good loops.
Think of it in terms of cars. If you compare a VW Beatle and a Ferrari. Both cars will drive and perform just fine at 40 mph. No problem with either of them. However, if you try to drive the VW Beatle at 120 mph, you will probably start noticing a performance problem (or two).
My opinion, Lass is casting the equivalent of "40 mph", so both rods will perform and cast nice loops just fine. (By "40 mph", I mean that he is casting a short distance, he is using a long stroke length, and he is using slower timing; which means he is in the comfort zone of both rods and they will create good loops.) If the caster were to start changing some of those variables, I think we'd see a change where one of the rods improves its loops while the other degrades its loops depending on what is changed.
Anyway, there are my thoughts. Not sure why it took so long to come to that conclusion and I have no idea if I'm anywhere near being right, but it makes sense to me...
Fly Fishers International certified casting instructor TFO Rods pro staff
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Re: How does rod action affect casting stroke?
[Re: RexW]
#10822165
05/06/15 01:37 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,728
mickfly
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
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Posts: 1,728 |
Not sure how this may affect the relative action of the rod, but owning a Sage 690 TCX myself, I would say that the Rio Gold 5 wt line seriously underloads that rod. Mine casts best with a 7 weight line.
Mickfly Fish Friendly -- Life's too short to do it any other way
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