Main Menu
Advertisement
Affiliates
Advertisement
Newest Members
Granbry, Gman.1218, Gkirk842, William Garcia, Trippmel
102692 Registered Users
Top Posters
TexDawg 82828
hopalong 74324
Pilothawk 73387
JDavis7873® 67377
FattyMcButterpants 60518
John175 ® 59845
Tritonman 56786
Derek 56400
SkeeterRonnie 52444
LoneStarSon® 52198
facebook
Forum Stats
102692 Members
61 Forums
858445 Topics
11261468 Posts

Max Online: 36273 @ 01/23/13 02:34 PM
Topic Options
#10785217 - 04/21/15 03:23 PM How does rod action affect casting stroke?
RexW Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 09/24/02
Posts: 2857
Loc: Sherman, TX

Here’s a casting question for you; “Should your casting stroke be changed or adjusted when you switch from casting a very “bendy rod” (soft action) to casting a very stiff (fast action) rod? If yes, what changes should be made?”




Think about your answer before continuing…





The general consensus of the first question tends to be something along the lines of “yes, of course you have to change your casting stroke to match the rod.”

If you agree with this comment above, here’s a video for you to ponder:

https://vimeo.com/35513634

The guy that made it is a very good caster and an experienced instructor. He attached a bendy rod and a stiff rod to the same handle, so the casting stroke is identical for both rods. Using the same line and line length, he filmed the results.

I’m surprised at the results and it makes me rethink my answers to the questions….


Just something for you to think about. noidea
_________________________
Rex W
FFF Certified Casting Instructor
TFO Pro Staff

Top
#10785456 - 04/21/15 04:55 PM Re: How does rod action affect casting stroke? [Re: RexW]
Brendan H Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 168
Loc: Allen, TX
That was pretty interesting Rex
_________________________
www.instagram.com/469fly


Top
#10785624 - 04/21/15 06:51 PM Re: How does rod action affect casting stroke? [Re: RexW]
preast Offline
Angler

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 378
Loc: Austin, TX
Hmmm. I'm trying to estimate how much line he has out. It appears less than 25' of line past the tip, which isn't much really.

Not that I'm disagreeing with the point of it, but I'd like to see something like a 40+' cast. Lots changes when you get more line out.

Top
#10785634 - 04/21/15 06:58 PM Re: How does rod action affect casting stroke? [Re: RexW]
Brad R Offline
Pro Angler

Registered: 03/09/15
Posts: 791
Loc: Texas
Rex, a great video, sort of mesmerizing.

Hmm? If you look carefully, the bendy rod does accelerate the line better as it takes the lead, most evident when viewing it as it comes from behind him to over his head. And, since the lines are of the same length, it isn't as if the "end result" can be altered as if measuring a trajectory landing, nor in this particular case do we actually see the end of the casts. In the end, both lines are extended forward and back.

I'd be curious, you don't quite give your conclusions away, what your take-away is?

There is simply no doubt that if we use a very loose analogy, that we'd all agree that there is an optimal spring resistance for a person of a particular weight jumping on a trampoline. One too springy or too firm would propel a jumper less high than at some optimal point along the power curve.

So, the whippiness of the one rod definitely seems to accelerate better. The question left is does it change the action one employs to take advantage of it, any aspects related to timing?

Very interesting! Brad

Top
#10786285 - 04/22/15 12:00 AM Re: How does rod action affect casting stroke? [Re: RexW]
moonriver Online   content
TFF Team Angler

Registered: 08/15/09
Posts: 4579
Very interesting.
_________________________

Top
#10787865 - 04/22/15 02:45 PM Re: How does rod action affect casting stroke? [Re: preast]
RexW Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 09/24/02
Posts: 2857
Loc: Sherman, TX
Originally Posted By: preast

Not that I'm disagreeing with the point of it, but I'd like to see something like a 40+' cast. Lots changes when you get more line out.


Here you go:

https://vimeo.com/35524148
_________________________
Rex W
FFF Certified Casting Instructor
TFO Pro Staff

Top
#10787893 - 04/22/15 02:49 PM Re: How does rod action affect casting stroke? [Re: Brad R]
RexW Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 09/24/02
Posts: 2857
Loc: Sherman, TX
Originally Posted By: Brad R

I'd be curious, you don't quite give your conclusions away, what your take-away is?


Not sure about my conclusions yet, I'm still pondering this...

The softer rod does produce wider loops, but they are not as wide as I would have expected.

Both rods create more "waves" in the line on rod leg side of the loop from tip bounce than I expected to see.
_________________________
Rex W
FFF Certified Casting Instructor
TFO Pro Staff

Top
#10792627 - 04/24/15 04:12 AM Re: How does rod action affect casting stroke? [Re: RexW]
Brad R Offline
Pro Angler

Registered: 03/09/15
Posts: 791
Loc: Texas
Rex, another really good video.

What we do know, considering applicable physics and sports analogies, is that the "bendy" rod stores more elastic potential energy, passes it along to the line. So, as with, say, tennis rackets, modern materials can propel a tennis ball much faster than an old wooden version.

If the objects, a fly tied on a line, are being slung and were magically un-tethered at the right time, the trajectory would be longer than a "too" stiff rod. Well, unless it is too limp, like a noodle. There is some calculus at work here with a graph tracing a too limp, optimal, and too stiff curve.

Like a trampoline, too much "bendy" cannot overcome its load as good as an optimized one, so there are limits to how whippy a rod can be to be effective.

There is a timing aspect to all of this. Using spinning gear and a light action rod, the finger release point is farther forward in the cast (allowing the potential energy to unload) than if one were using a heavy action rod.

Brad





Edited by Brad R (04/24/15 04:13 AM)

Top
#10816404 - 05/03/15 11:01 PM Re: How does rod action affect casting stroke? [Re: RexW]
RexW Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 09/24/02
Posts: 2857
Loc: Sherman, TX
OK, I've been pondering this one for a while and here are my thoughts about being able to make a good loop with two different rod actions that are cast together like the video...


Well, DUH!!!!!! Of course it can be done.


Here's why. For a slower action rod, the casting stroke needs to be longer and generally slower than the stroke needed to cast a faster action rod. However, the faster action rod will still cast fine with a longer than necessary stroke. The faster rod will not perform as well as it will with a shorter and more powerful stroke, but it will still throw good loops.

Think of it in terms of cars. If you compare a VW Beatle and a Ferrari. Both cars will drive and perform just fine at 40 mph. No problem with either of them. However, if you try to drive the VW Beatle at 120 mph, you will probably start noticing a performance problem (or two).

My opinion, Lass is casting the equivalent of "40 mph", so both rods will perform and cast nice loops just fine. (By "40 mph", I mean that he is casting a short distance, he is using a long stroke length, and he is using slower timing; which means he is in the comfort zone of both rods and they will create good loops.) If the caster were to start changing some of those variables, I think we'd see a change where one of the rods improves its loops while the other degrades its loops depending on what is changed.

Anyway, there are my thoughts. Not sure why it took so long to come to that conclusion and I have no idea if I'm anywhere near being right, but it makes sense to me...




_________________________
Rex W
FFF Certified Casting Instructor
TFO Pro Staff

Top
#10822165 - 05/06/15 08:37 AM Re: How does rod action affect casting stroke? [Re: RexW]
mickfly Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 02/23/08
Posts: 1688
Loc: Fairview, TX
Not sure how this may affect the relative action of the rod, but owning a Sage 690 TCX myself, I would say that the Rio Gold 5 wt line seriously underloads that rod. Mine casts best with a 7 weight line.
_________________________
Mickfly
Fish Friendly -- Life's too short to do it any other way

Top



© 1998-2016 OUTDOOR SITES NETWORK all rights reserved USA and Worldwide