Falcon Lake � The current daily bag limit of one alligator gar would be changed to five fish per day. The increased bag limit would be in effect in the all impounded waters of the Rio Grande from the Falcon Dam upstream to the Zapata/Webb County line.

Falcon Lake anglers and stakeholders have become increasingly concerned about management of alligator gar in recent years. In response, TPWD conducted a comprehensive study at Falcon in 2014 to obtain the biological information necessary to make management recommendations for the species at this locale. Most (88 percent) anglers who target the species reside within 1.5 hours of the reservoir. The fishery is primarily harvest oriented, and harvesting a trophy-size alligator gar was not a highly important motivation. Most Falcon anglers (gar and non-gar anglers) desire an increase in the daily bag limit.

A simulation model was used to assess the potential impact of harvest rate on the sustainability of the population and trophy-size fish. Harvest rate is currently estimated to be one percent or less, based on the estimated gar harvest on Falcon Lake and in comparison with harvest data from nearby Choke Canyon Reservoir. An increase in the daily bag limit poses a minimal risk to population sustainability and trophy fish abundance and would allow anglers to harvest more alligator gar.

I don't get why there's even a limit.... Wipe these things out.

About time

Hat's off to James Bendele at Falcon Lake Tackle. Were it not for his staying on TPWD about the AG on Falcon Lake, this new limit probably would have never happened.

Great job James.

One more step to the rebound of those mammoth bass.

That's absolutely right.

Thanks Fellers.. Keep in mind that this change will not go into effect till September first..

Like telling a man he has cancer.. But we ain't gonna do anything about it for a year.. They could make it effective at the March Meeting.. But I highly doubt it..

We will apply pressure for that to happen though at the public hearing to be held in Zapata in the next month.. Date has not been set yet..

Thanks for your support and to all the anglers that responded to TPWD's survey at the ramps..

Is there an expectation that harvest will actually take place? Are there more than a handful of people who will try to fill their limits? I hope the answer is yes on both fronts. Any insight on those two questions James?

A lot of people quit coming from any distance because they could only take one fish per day.. So hopefully folks will come back that used to come from the midwest and beyond..

It is possible that some commercial fishermen will return.. Gar meat is in demand and a few man crew could help the situation.. They have to use hook and line methods only though.. No nets..

I am sure a few guides will be bringing clients down here as well..

The locals think "Catan" is awesome and I am sure the few bowfishing boats around the lake will take a few more..

Back in the eighties commercial fishermen took a million pounds of gar out of Choke Canyon.. And it is back to crawling with gar..

So I don't think that they will hurt the population too bad with a five fish limit..

But it can't do anything but help the bass population down here!

Get your Bows out Boys!! Don't know what your missing out on!!

Kill them all

I witnessed some commercial guys back in the early 90's on choke. They had just come in and backed a long bed truck full off ice down to the ramp. I watched as they loaded that truck down with big gar. He said by the time they got back from new Orleans to offload that their juglines would be full of gar again. He said you could almost run your lines and by the time you got back to the first line it would have one on it already. There were that many down there.

some of those falcon gar look like small submarines when they run up under your boat

Good job James!

So is this new limit only for Falcon or is Choke getting it as well?

This new regulation change will be for Falcon only..

Probably not significant. Water level and bass stocking drives this fishery. If anything, there might be a slight increase in common carp, tilapia and gizzard shad which made up 75% of the diet of gar in the Falcon study (largemouth bass was 8%).

Hi guys, it's is just my opinion. I believe tp@w does a pretty good job so if they increase the limit than it needed to be increased. But don't think for a second that having the right amount of gar, doesn't help the bass fishing. Gar primarily eat small fish and they help keep the populations in check. I believe that if large lakes didn't have gar, they would be full of 2 lb bass. If you think about it, all the Sabine fed lakes that hold monster bass have huge alligator gar in them. I believe this isn't a coincidence. Btw, I am a bass fisherman!

Witch hunt. What is your explanation about the fact gar have been in the lake since impoundment?

While it may be true that gar have been in the lake forever, their population had been balanced by commercial fishermen.. When the harvest was limited to one per day, it stopped all the Texas commercial fishing.. Six years ago the cartel presence ran off the Mexican gar fishermen, and they have not returned.

With awesome conditions, the gar and the bass exploded.. And while bass classes last so long, the gar live ten times longer. And when there is a lot of bass, gar eat a lot of bass.. TPWD's own studys showed bass populations down by 68% in two years before they did the gar study. Under good conditions! What would the stomach contents have been if they did this sampling in 2010?

As far as gar keeping the lake in check and us not being overpopulated with 2 pound bass, have you ever seen a stunted bass on Falcon? There is and always has been a tremendous food supply here. It has everything to do with biomass.. Food supply is not a problem.

One last thought.. If gar have nothing to do with bass populations, where are all the bass from the 2008 and 2010 classes? This lake should be crawling with four to ten pound fish.. We had two of the highest water years in history, which ALWAYS produces strong year classes.. If I have to explain why that is then we should not even be talking..

If you have never been here, then you cannot understand what we are talking about. Any fish that can easily carry 500,000 eggs, lives fifty years, spawns on a regular basis, and has no natural enemies or predators can easily get out of control..

And it has.. That's the facts.. Think what you want..

Alligator gar and cormorants are two apex predators that we can actually affect through legislation. The meat hunters and low water levels are tougher to address but I applaud you guys down south for getting your voices heard.

Anyone who's caught those beautiful bass with gashes in them knows they are being hunted.

Well thats good news. However, there are not enough gar fisherman to make a difference in the overall population even if the limit were 10 per day.
I have fished Falcon regularly for 13 years. I believe I noticed one person actually fishing for gar during that time. I noticed more people fishing for gar on Choke Canyon during those 13 years.
During that time, I also notice multiple fisherman almost every time I returned to the boat ramp with dead bass at the cleaning stations. Some were locals and some were out of town people. In the hotter months I also noticed a lot of dead bass floating in the lake. I believe a lot probably died from being in livewells and some probably died from distended air bladders. When Falcon was on fire, there were more fisherman and more dead bass. This takes a significant toll over time. Then you have the simple fact that bass only live for number of years, and on Falcon, I believe that time is shorter than the northern lakes. They have a fast growth rate and a shorter lifetime.
Then, you add drought and fast dropping lake levels. That takes a toll on the bass population on any body of water. The gar population boomed due to the dropping water levels in the Rio Grande. All those gar that lived up the river had to move south to survive.
To this day, even the recent studies on Falcon, mutiple studies have proved that the Largemouth Bass is less than 10% of the Aligator Gar's diet.
But, like anything, people love to have controversy. This is kinda like the single bullet theory. It simply didn't happen.

I guess those fish in 2008 and 2010 didn't spawn.. It simply didn't happen..

I guess the low lake levels have nothing to do with those fish spawning either? Amistad isn't what it was a few years ago either let's kill all the gar.

Mr. Bendele have you ever seen what gizzard shad do to a nest of bass eggs. This past year during the spawn on Texoma I witnessed what happens. I can assure you they destroy far more in that short period of time than gar could ever eat. Would you like to take all the shad out of the lake as well? What do carp do around the same time bass are spawning? Guess we should take all the carp out as well. I believe our efforts would be better spent focusing on fish care, people I've seen cutting up 5+# fish at the ramp or maybe lets try to do something about water level? Like stated earlier Witch Hunt

Too many is too many. This is good news.

What's the issue here? If there's too many gar which there clearly is allowing people to take more is simple management. All I see is some folks stepping up and taking action to help keep the lake managed.

Put a bow in the boat while you fish.....I promise it can turn the slows times into fun times!

I keep mine strapped down to the deck. It's like picking up another rod.

No doubt lets manage the fisheries. It's each of our duty to do so. Hook into one of those monsters and you will definitely have some fun. What I don't agree with is the folks saying the down turn at falcon is due 100% to gar and rallying everyone to go on this senseless witch hunt.

I go to the cabelas in Fort Worth almost daily seems like. Those cabelas people have done the craziest thing I could imagine. They have put those 70#+ gar in the same tank as their trophy bass........ They must restock those big bass daily or even hourly using the numbers of bass James has stated gar eat. Being confined in that space and having all those bass just swimming around and suspended right around their snouts. Or maybe just maybe gar actually do Prefer a diet that isn't live trophy bass. Who knows, that isn't a real world environment but one would think the gars desire to demolish a bass population would be exaggerated in a confined environment such as the aquarium. Believe me I've sat there for numerous hours throughout the years hoping one of those gar would smoke an 8# bass or one of those catfish but havnt seen it yet.

Gotta love all the internet biologists....

I feel this is a good move; I mean it wont hurt anything and might help a little. So why not?

I'm no biologist but I have stayed in a Holiday Express. The reference to Cabela's tanks makes no sense. For one thing I would imagine the Gar eat small, baby bass not trophies. And they also feed those fish a few times a day don't they?

They are light eaters.

BTW this one was 6' long. Only a mouth a mother could love right there!

I bet he was a plankton eater.

I'm no biologist either, I don't know anything about these creatures but I just wanted to put my two cent's in. I did have one swim by my boat one day in about 3 feet of water with a 6/7 lbr. sticking out of it's jaws. Nice meal.

I have not claimed to be a biologist at any point either. A certain individual on here is making claims that do not add up to me.

Slade seems the holiday inn did you some good and my cabelas post did make sense because you got the point that the gar do not eat trophy bass as one individual has claimed numerous times. I don't know how many times they feed them or what they feed them and I stated it wasn't real world but the point which you got is they aren't eating the big bass in the aquarium therefore leading us to believe in that particular situation the prefer a different diet.

Sorry if I have ruffled feathers. I get on here daily and never post. I enjoy reading the posts but I have kept up with the gar debate on here as well as other sites and it bothered me that a whole bunch of people take an individual's (who is also not a biologist) point of view as gospel.

I am a bass fisherman and I understand gar eat bass. As do countless other creatures in our water. There are many factors in the decline of falcon. I do not believe gar is the top or only reason as some have suggested. If the limit is raised to 5 then by all means have at it. I would love to bow fish and I woukd dang sure love to hook into one of those big falcon monster gar but if I'm making the trip to falcon, like a lot of you, I will be bass fishing.

No body on here said they are the only reason that bass fishing diminished on Falcon..

No body on here said they eat only trophy bass..

Everybody knows that gar eat bass..

Anybody that has been on Falcon in the summer can see we have a lot of gar.

Anybody that thinks gar are good for bass fishing is an idiot..

I am not a biologist either.. (Not that it would matter because being a biologist can't help you in this matter) Biologists don't know any more about the gar than I do..

There is not a gar school.. But we are learning more all the time..

And you can too if you want to pay attention.. And you can be objective.

Gar where you live ain't like gar where I live..

Looks like this gar was trying to eat this Falcon Bass I caught a while back.

Anyone ever see gator gar spawning? It's a freakin orgy in the bushes, resulting in hundreds of thousands of offspring. Their number can multiply so fast it's crazy. Gar used to be harvested out of Livingston in the 70s and sold to a popular fish stick producer. There became a fear of over harvesting so that stopped, now the dang things will breach in front of wake boarders & break their legs, LOL... I've clipped several with my lower unit & stunned them. It's nothing to see many little 6' gar on the Trinity throughout the day around Riverside. There are bass here though, but they hide up in the logjams pretty well, maybe fearing for their lives!

Guys, Alligator gar have been in Falcon Lake since it was impounded. They were already indigenous in the Rio Grande. They have been around for millions of years. How in the world did the bass population explode in Falcon when there are so many of these "bass eating gar"?
Simple, lack of fishing pressure. Once the word got out that Falcon was the premier lake in Texas, the fishing pressure expanded tremendously. I have never seen as many meet hunters with largemouth bass on any other lake as what I have seen at Falcon. TP&W does not stock a fraction of the fish in Falcon that Fork receives. IF they did, Falcon would still be on top. End of story!
James,
Like I said, it has been proven numerous times, even at your request on the recent Falcon surveys, that an Alligator gars diet is not more than 10% of largemouth bass. Just because you don't agree with me, I don't think you are an idiot. Clean those gar out, i'll see you in April.

You can be the Fun N Sun boys will be down there in Jeff's air boat Bows a Blazin!!

Does the bag limit apply to the Mexican side of the lake?

Alpha, James isn't and has never claimed to be a biologist. However, his interest in the over-population of Alligator Gar in Falcon lake brought a bunch of real biologists to the lake to do a study on Alligator Gar. Regardless of the AG's love or disdain for bass as food, you've got to know that the gar feed on many of the same forage species as the largemouths. And you also realize the Alligator Gar is the premier predator in any waterbody, right?. They have no natural predators and can reproduce at astonishing rates. After a couple studies, TPWD has obviously concluded that Falcon Lake has too many pounds/acre of alligator gar. In turn, TPWD has increased the daily limit from one to five fish.

The gar live fifty years.. Or who knows how long.. On a bass's way to living ten years, how many get eaten?

Fifty years..

Can you wrap your mind around fifty years of eating bass? And there are no year classes of gar missing in the last ten.. Can you see how exponentially their numbers can grow compared to the bass? And gar have no natural enemies.. They are the apex predator in freshwater..

The numbers don't diminish.. They grow.. Every year.. And you can't hardly hunt or kill them with a one per day limit.. And five won't make a huge difference either.. And their numbers will grow again this year.. But the new reg is better than nothing..


Yes we had a bass paradise.. But now, for many of the reasons that have been mentioned, bass numbers have been diminished, not the least of which are the gar..

Parks and Wildlife does not stock to increase the number of fish in a lake.. Only to change the genetics.. That you can ask any PAW biologist..

Fouz thank you for your reply. I am 100% with you. I totally agree with you about directly competing with bass for food and I absolutely agree gar eat some bass. I do not doubt falcon has an over abundance of gar. Why now all of the sudden after how many ever years the lake has been impounded? Why not same problem at amistad? Why not Texoma? Don't know maybe you have a great answer. As I have stated I do not agree with the witch hunt lets kill all AG because they eat all our bass and so on and so on I have read on SOMEBODY's blog/report. Used to be a frequent reader until the kill every gar rampage. I understand some of you have not read the rants and raves written about gar but he/you definately said AG eat trophy bass and the decline in bass is due to over abundance of gar along with other things. I have faith in TPWD and they have made the best decision for us and my kids.

I know your part of world pretty well. I am Cotulla right this second as I type this message.

Repeat question
Does the bag limit apply to the Mexican side of the lake?

No, but you better not bring more than the U.S. limit back across to the U.S. side. Probably a good idea to drive to Mexico and put in on their side and stay over there if you want to keep more than the daily bag limit in the U.S.

I have answered all these questions in this same thread.. If you read it.. At this point I am done explaining..
Won't make any difference to you anyway..

There arnt enough bow fisherman to bring down the gar population IMO

If they were serious about keeping the population in check they would allow commercial fishing. My buddy is a bow fishing guide.... Maybe he will book more trips due to the increase in the limit, it's a blast shooting a big gar with a bow. They don't taste bad either.

So I've caught or seen atleast 10 bass in my life with crappie in there mouth. Maybe the crappie fisherman should consider a petition to raise the bass harvest limits. What's good for the goose is good for the gander right?

That's about the dumbest post ever typed on the forum. Please do explain how a bass that has many predators willing to eat them and keeps its population in check through nature has anything in common with a fish that has a 1 per day limit, grows 7' long, can weigh 200lbs and only has man as it's predator.


Or shall I word it more along the lines of "what in your opinion kills gar, other than man, of course"?

7'? They get a helluva lot bigger than that buddy

If you need help on who to call or write to get your idea into law let me know.. We did not use petitions.. Just people with common sense..

James answered your question that I put in bold print.

"While it may be true that gar have been in the lake forever, their population had been balanced by commercial fishermen.. When the harvest was limited to one per day, it stopped all the Texas commercial fishing.. Six years ago the cartel presence ran off the Mexican gar fishermen, and they have not returned."


Witch hunt?.....nah, we would like to see the population put back in check. After talking to a commercial gar fishermen from Louisiana last year I highly doubt that we will be able to get this population under control until guys like him come back. That won't happen at a 5 fish a day limit unfortunately.

Falcon isn't fishing like it did several years ago for several reasons.....the gar population is only part of the puzzle, but it's a part of the puzzle, like Mr. Bean mentioned, that we can and should make every effort to impact.


I will now remove myself from this thread......lol. Have a great night TFF

If you as me I'd say it's to damn late ! I guess maybe one day that poor lake will rebound.

Gars are worthless and am all for fishing for and killing the heck out of them. If the folks across the border can make tacos out of them, even better. But I bet there are millions of gar in that lake. Or at least half a million at the least. Fishing and harvesting them not even gonna make a dent. As long as there is enough food to support the current population, it's not gonna change.

Falcon took a serious dive and most of the bass died here in the last couple yrs. Same thing in Amistad. It's only sensible to come to the conclusion that it was some kind of pollution or virus in the water. It started up at Amistad and washed down to Falcon clearly. The fish that remain appear to be healthy and growing. But the populations of bass appear to be less than 10% of where they were just 3 yrs ago. Gonna take years to get better. Only thing TWPD can do to help Falcon and Amistad is stock the [censored] out of those lakes with fingerlings as many times as possible over the next few years.

We did not use a petition.. We used people with common sense .. But if you need names and numbers to call to get your petition going let me know..

James Thanks for all you do to try To keep Falcon a premier fishing spot in this country, anybody that reads your website knows you have pointed out every issue affecting the bass fishing at Falcon mentioned in this thread. You were doing that when Rosy was a swimsuit model. Keep on doing what you do brother.

I was just making a point. If u read my first post u will see that I said that if tp@w says the limit needs to be changed then it needs to be changed. But people on here act as if gar are the main reason for bass populations decreasing and that's simply untrue. If there are too many then yes it's a problem, but a healthy population of gar is good for a lake. I bass fish 4 times a wk guys. I wasn't trying to stir the pot. Think about this, don't u think a 5-5 lb fatty eats just as many small bass as a gar.

C'Mom Man .....
it is not the number of bass or any fish that "ONE" gar eats, it is the total number of gar in the lake that eat just "one" bass.
Listen (understand) what James is trying to tell you,,,,,,, it is the total number of gar in the lake and the way they explode exponentially each year.
It's very similar to putting grass carp in a lake,,,,,,,pretty soon you have no grass.
he doesn't want to exterminate them, just reduce the population that has grown out of proportion to what it should be.

Anyone on here know when the limit on gar changed to one per day?
Sept 2009. Yes, less than 6 years ago. Before that, there was no daily limit.
Here is another interesting fact from: https://tpwd.texas.gov/news-media/releases/?req=20090326g
"While research on the fish, which can grow to more than 250 pounds, is still in its early stages in Texas, biologists know that alligator gar are very long-lived animals and take a long time to reach sexual maturity, with females attaining an age of 12 years and a length of about 60 inches before spawning for the first time."

Right up the Rio Grande from Falcon is Amistad, which has a lower bass population than Falcon and no mention of a gar population problem depleting the bass population. Within 2-3 hours of those two lake is Choke Canyon, which also has a very low bass population and no mention of an increased gar population depleting the bass population.
All three of these lakes have some common problems.
1) increased fishing pressure after word got out that they were excellent fisheries.
2) extremely low water levels and extreme fluctuations in water levels.
3) lack of adequate largemouth bass stocking to offset problems 1 and 2.

So your saying 90% of the bass died?

What evidence do you have to substantiate this claim?

He said ("appear" to be less than 10%)
that is a personal observation and opinion..... no facts, just his own personal opinion.
He needs no evidence to state his own personal opinion.

Some people just don't like gar.
Falcon is not fishing like it used to.
everyone has an opinion as to why.
They do not need evidence or facts to state why they think Falcon is not fishing like it used to.

No, it's not the dumbest thing ever posted and lots of things eat gar when they're small. Until a gar gets over a foot long, which takes about a year, many predator fish can eat it as it's the shape of a hot dog, can't swim very fast, and has no defenses against being eaten. And, the biggest part of a gar's diet is usually composed of shad, which Falcon has a huge population of (reference #1 and #2). Gar will eat bass (reference #3), no question, but gar are lethargic opportunistic predators that eat whatever is in abundance. I can assure you there are far more shad in Falcon than largemouth, even back when it was fishing well. O.H. Ivie went through this same cycle a few years before Falcon got hot and it's not overrun with gar. Kev's accurate analogy is pointing out that harvesting a bunch of one predator that eats your chosen sportfish isn't going to solve the issue, it's never that simple. And, with alligator gar populations dwindling in other parts of the US, I highly doubt TPWD is ever going to allow extensive commercial fishing for them again.

#1 Food of Gars in Texas

#2 A Reappraisal of Gars and Bowfins in Fishery Management

#3 Ecology of the Alligator Gar, Atractoste...aulipas, Mexico

I'd be willing to wager that bass tournaments have killed just as many bass since 06' as gar have

It's a multifaceted problem. I catch more bass on the Mexico side than I do on the u.s side and they allow gill nets when in all actuality I should catch less.

The problem is multi-fold this witch hunt for gar is just to appease the public

Nevertheless I'll be down there bow in hand to do my part to kill some gar.

How many of the fans of raising the limits are gonna start shooting them?

Actually......this is about the most sensible post to the thread. at least as far as I, a gin-u-wine fisheries biologist biologist, even better what they call 'round here "An Aggie Biologist," can see.

Now I don't know exactly what's goin' on at Falcon, its a long ways from me, but I do know that gar, and all the other myriad of species, indigenous and exotic, are part of an interlaced and interdependent ecology. They play an important role in the form of a specialized predator and removing them all would likely have a an overall negative effect on the quality of the bass fishery in the lake.

Saying that, the gar's potential negative impact on bass is a lot more due to competition for food than actually "eatin' up all the bass." Not that they won't eat a bass given the opportunity, but there are more opportunities to eat shad, carp and tilapia than bass in most lakes with gar, especially alligator gar.

The gar's sedentary lifestyle does not demand a lot of food, very unlike a bass which has to eat very regularly in order to live its very active lifestyle.

The gar is one of nature's most enduring designs, pre-dating even the dinosaurs and surviving mass extinctions to this day. Not until overharvesting by humans along with habitat destruction was the alligator gar threatened with survival as a species. Whatever is "special" about Falcon Lake that makes for good AG reproduction and recruitment should be the thing under study there.

You will almost always find that when the gar population is thriving, so are those of other large predators in the system, such as largemouth and striped bass, blue catfish, ospreys, eagles, otters, etc.

I do advocate for reasonable management in favor of the most economic and least environmental impacts to a community. Which in this case would be in favor of the bass over the gar.

TP&WD, especially with respect to managing fisheries in unnatural and manmade habitats, does an excellent job, and I'd endorse their plan based just on that.

Txtrophy,
We need to get set up with your buddy to go shoot some. I will be down there in late April.

Just for the record.. Choke Canyon is also over run with gar.. And Gators..

They took out a million pounds in a single year back in the eighties and they are still crawling in that lake.

If I hear one more person quoting OLD data from other studies I am going to scream..

Falcon Gar mature in much shorter time, are sexually mature at three years old in many cases, and can weigh a hundred pounds on average at eight to nine years..

We have seen that on average a 100 pound gar here on Falcon is nine years old.

If a fish converts 5% of food weight to body weight, which would be on the high side, he would have to eat 220 pounds of fish on average per year to get to 100 pounds. So in the course of this fish getting to 100 pounds, he has eaten close to a ton of fish.

And like I said, that is using a 5% conversion rate, which is probably a bit out there.. But hell, a lot of this stuff is speculation anyway.

But that is a hell of a lot of fish, no matter what fish you think they are eating. And we are talking about ONE fish.. Eating a TON of fish.. And if they live to be fifty years old.. Well.. You do the math..

That does not soundlike a lethargic or light eater to me..

But then some folks might think that Rosie is not fat..

Who knows how many gar we have in the lake.. But the numbers have never been higher..

Since commercial fishing was halted in 2009, we have seen an exponential rise in gar numbers..

Coincidence? I don't think so.. Did we have a shortage of gar before the reg change in 2009? With no limit? I don't think so either..

A balance is all we are after.. Not the anniliation of the species. TPWD has taken a good first step in MANAGING gar as they should.. And if in the near future we see numbers decline or increase they can and will, I am sure, adjust the legal harvest..

We used science for this regulation change..

But to the ignorant science might appear to be magic.. Or even witchcraft..

not witch craft but a witch hunt.

Yes, and if 10% of the Gars diet is largemouth bass then that equals 22lbs per day. How many pounds per day do you think die from natural causes, reckless fisherman, tournament fisherman, gill nets, and fisherman keeping them to eat?

And I guess you think I have never addressed these issues?

Gar are one piece of the puzzle..

Do you think we should start stocking gar in other lakes? Like Fork?

I base my opinion off personal experience fishing these lakes regularly over the past 4-5yrs. And tournament weights give a really good sampling of fish populations and sizes. Tournament anglers comb the lake from one end to the other. From shallow to ultra deep. The results have be consistent easily since last Jan. I think the bass population on Amistad especially is actually even quite a bit less than 10% of what it was 3-4 yrs ago. You used to be able to hit every spot that looked good on the map and there'd be bass. Now it's a needle in a haystack to find fish. 20lbs for 5 fish was nothing 3 yrs ago. Now there are only a hand full of 20lb sacks brought in each yr!!!! And not just the size of fish but the number of keeper fish that are caught are probably more realistically 5% or less of where it was. Everyone's arguement to the dead fish claim is that you'd see fish floating everywhere. That's just not true. The fish can just as easily die and all sink to the bottom.

I'd say increasing the bag limit is a small improvement but will not even remotely put a dent in the population fluctuations of gar there. They need to put multiple electroshock boats out there every day for months and kill every last one they can. Don't know what theyd do with them. And even still will only make a small dent. Falcon's bass fishing will come back regardless of the gar and fishing pressure. They were all mostly killed off most likely from some kind of pollution that most likely made its way into the system from Mexico.

Just my opinions.

They did not stock them in Falcon. BTW, they are already in Fork. See pic below.

Here is some more factual information from the Falcon study.
"In the Falcon study, bass made up 8 percent of the gar�s diet, 10 percent were catfish, 3 percent were freshwater drum and 2 percent were crappie. More than 75 percent of the fish identifiable in gar stomachs were rough fish � common carp, blue tilapia and gizzard shad.
At Falcon, female alligator gar reached sexual maturity at age 7. Females weighing 100 pounds were mostly 9 years old. Females grew to five feet in five years while it took male alligator gar 10 years to reach five feet."

I think I wrote that..

That is a baby gar in that pic.. But if they are so special I think we should stock them in other lakes.. For all of you gar lovers to enjoy..

The answer is clear here. From my reading of Falcon threads, I would suggest that the ShareLunker folks show up at Falcon and remove three or four gar. As a result, the remainder of the gar in the lake will vanish. Simple science really.

Has anyone proven that Alligator gar eat live, healthy bass? Maybe they eat dying or dead ones? Nobody has shown that one way or the other to my knowledge. Just a thought.

Think of all the money TP&W waisted to do this study that could have been put to better use, like stocking Falcon with more bass. You think the 5 day per limit will make a difference? They estimate it "might" decrease the overall gar population by 1%. WOW!
Why not get on internet forums and write letters to the powers that be to make some real changes.
1) Stop letting Mexico suck so much water out of Amistad and Falcon.
2) Decrease the daily bag limit of largemouth bass during low water years, which will in turn force a decrease in the daily limits of tournaments.
3) Push for more annual stockings of large mouth bass, esp when there is increased fishing pressure.
4) Push for removal of hydrilla from the list of "Bad" grass because it is non-native grass. Florida strain largemouth are non-native too!
5) As always, angler education is a must! People putting multiple 10 lb fish in a live well all day because they are afraid someone will find their honey hole, then show up with dead fish in their live well. Seen it happen to many times to count on Falcon.

OMG.... No you didn't.....

Why do you say it was a waste of money? Those guys were just doing their jobs. It's not like they were not getting paid if they weren't here..

Wanna save some money.. Get rid of the Sharelunker program.. It's proven that it is doing nothing for our fish..

Who has bitched louder and longer than me about most of those items you covered?

Put your money where your mouth is and get to work on all of those projects..

People like to bitch and moan.. And they (we) all have opinions.. But rarely do they do much about anything.. But bitch and moan..

I'm waiting..

What has constant complaining about TPWD got done for falcon??? Lol

I don't know.. Who was complaining about TPWD??

Goodnight Gracie...

James,
I guess if you think it wasn't a waste of money because they did prove one thing we didn't already know, that gar grow faster in Falcon than the northern lakes and rivers. But, so does every other species in that lake and I don't need a study to prove it. Falcon has a warmer climate, hence a longer yearly growing period.
I have followed your post for several years now and your blog on the FLT website. You have tried to convince everyone that the Alligator Gar have drastically reduced the Largemouth Bass population on Falcon Lake. Even though just a few years after we went from a no limit to one gar per day limit, you propose that these gar multiply at an astounding rate. However, there was no mention of a population problem on Falcon prior to 2009 when the limit on gar changed to one per day. And IF, there was an increase in the number of gar due to this bag limit change, the gar offspring starting in 2009-2010 would still not be at a sexually mature age so the population would only increase each year from the population that was already in Falcon prior to 2009.
You with me so far?
If we assume there was a population problem with gar prior to 2009, then why did we have a population boom of largemouth bass during that time?
Now, you even suggest that the recent study on Falcon Lake is flawed because TP&W waited too long to do the study and the gar ate a large portion of the bass population so there is not enough bass left in the lake to get an accurate study. C'mon! Really? You might as well close the tackle shop and open up a hunting lodge.
However, I think most will agree, the bass fishing is actually better down there now than it was after the lake level dropped in 2012. Maybe the gar decided that bass are not that tasty after all?

I did not read any of the other posts just the original post!

I believe the reason giving by TPWD for increasing the limit is misleading at best! The truth is certain people believe the gar are eating all the black bass! TPWD should have just said we were beat over the head until we gave into the people that think the gar are eating all the bass!

What led to the huge increase of gar was the cesation of commercial fishing..

For the umptheenth time..

Where's all the fish from 2008 and 2010? Can't answer that one??

It is easy to not read the rest of the posts and just comment with your opinion.. Having a real educated dialogue takes some work.. I know.. It is hard.. So don't feel bad..

And it is easy to be an expert on a lake you see once a year.. If ever..

Best of luck to you guys.. I'm done with this thread..

I had gar at Mambos in Houston. Pretty good stuff....

Name me those commercial fisherman?
Again, the limit changed in 2009. You have been complaining about the gar since 2012. So in 3 years the gar population exploded and ate the majority of the bass population? The facts are in front of you, but you refuse to acknowledge them.
BTW, I lived in SanAntonio from 2000 to 2013. I fished Falcon way more than once a year. Got plenty of pics of 10lb + fish to prove it.

LOL!! You are a hoot! Oh and tell me where I was wrong on my post!! So you are saying you did not call on TPWD to increase the limit to protect the bass?

What I saw in 2012 was a very low water level that bunched up all species of fish.
There is no doubt in my mind that the Gar were eating an above average number of bass at that time.

In the end no matter whether you think the gar are eating the bass or not Texas Parks and Wildlife tries to do a pretty dang good job of balancing the wants of fisherman and mother nature!! TP&W will do their best to try and reach a balance that meets all those goals! There is a heck of a lot more people that want giant bass than giant gar that is for sure! Do alligator gar eat bass sure they eat whatever they can swallow whole and get their mouth on! I do not think gar are the main reason for the lower bass population just a piece of the puzzle that TP&W will use to try and help Falcon back to what she was! Being a jerk about it and insulting people never helps! All it does is builds negative feelings! I hope the new limit works and Falcon is kicking out giants inside 3 years at the rate it used to and James can wear a great big ole bright orange shirt that says "I told you so"!

So let's see what stimulates an economy and has us idiots spending thousands of dollars a year on lures, rod & reels, line, boats, hotels.

Is it option #1. Alligator gar with a 1 fish limit, heck even a 5 fish limit.

Or

Option #2. The largemouth bass.

When was the last time you guys headed to lake blah blah blah because of the awesome gar fishing?

Choke has so many longnose gar in it that it's just plain silly (yeah I know they aren't alligator gar), nothing keeps the gar population in check other than man and man isn't going to waste the money & time for nothing.

You gar lovers are just plain silly, maybe we should introduce wolves into Texas now too.

Here's what I think should be done from this point on. Launch your boat and start pitching in some brush.

There was a study done in Mexico a number of years ago , I've posted it in kher threads before so I didn't look it up again.

But basically what they found was with the lower water levels the bass were forced out into open water habitat and were an easier and more abundant target for the gar, and they saw an dramatic increase I the percentage of bass in the studied gars stomach contents.

Another interesting fact was that because gar were so hard to shock up especially for large ones was that they gill netted and trot lined for gar to study.

We had the same situation on falcon. Serious low water levels put heards of bass suspending out in the channel, an easy target for the large gar.

I have caught alot of bass on falcon and on my home lake(that has a huge gar population as well) with what appears to be gar teeth marks in them.

It's either gar or sharks, the gar seem to be more likely.

Are the gar the only reason for a decrease in bass population? No, but an over abundance of any one species, and the right hunting conditions will hurt other prdetor populations for sure.


And if everyone thinks the 5 fish limit is so bad why don't y'all complain about the 25 fish limit of crappie???

Or the fact that bass are at a 5 fish limit too??

Personally I wish they'd get their love transport trucks going and remove a bunch and take the to the regions with declining populations.

I bet of they took 1 million gar out of my home lake it wouldn't even put a dent int the popution.

I see hundreds a day breach.

Guys are just wanting to argue, no need in bring common sense into this thread. Apparently gar are gods gift to lakes, therefore we need to protect them and start an anti-gar kill campaign for the gar lovers here. You know, the ones who help stimulate the local economies with all of their gar catching money.

I think you're confusing "gar lovers" with people who believe that a mild loostening of harvest restrictions on a fish that has a minor impact on largemouth populations is not as significant as some here so adamantly believe it is in the fight to save the almightly largemouth on Falcon. A couple of these people who lack common sense have masters degrees in fisheries management with many more years of experience in the field. But what do those idiot "gar lovers" know about fish population dynamics anyways?

I think I've been extremely 2 sided on this issue. I love bass fishing and if there are too many gar in a lake I'm all for the tp&w thinning them out and getting it in check. The problem I have is too many bass fisherman automatically just hate gar and don't think about the whole picture. In college we did a study of why the fish in the sebine river chain get so much bigger on average and also have a strong population. It's my opinion that it's a combination of things. #1, east texas waters are warmer than central tx water which leads to more productive spawns, #2 more big predator fish to keep small fish numbers in check (not fry), and big deep lakes with an abundance of big gizzard shad. I don't know falcon well but I wonder if some of the problem could be a decrease in gizzard shad, which in turn is causing predator fish to eat more game fish. I wonder if they did a study in the crappie and white bass populations if they are also low. If the gar are eating bass, trust me they are eating crappie also. So I would say if the crappie numbers are right then the problem lies elsewhere. This is very interesting conversation though.

Really hard to believe that there is any argument about the increase in gar limits. There are folks on here that live to find fault with anything. There's too many gar in falcon, they do eat some bass. With all the things that can lower bass populations they are not number one but are on the list. Few if any folks on the board go to falcon in search of gar and yet folks find it necessary to argue about how many bass a freaking gar eats. Four pages of [censored] and growing. Amazing.

By the way James's only aim is to keep Falcon a great bass fishery, now there is something we can all get p!ssed about.

I just wish I could find an emoticon beating a dead gar......

I fixed one of your words which was misspelled! So what if some magical pirate ship has seen some big bass eaten by gar? Does this deem as factual evidence? or just more BS, or is the only info on GAR depicted from an uneducated, uninformed and highly political wildlife department? Hmmm

Is there a translator in the house?

sounds like we need more/bigger gar in North Texas to thin out the wake boarding population!

Yeah boy! I'm going to go watch the Garmasters next tournament at Falcon, I bet they draw thousands of fans! Long live the gar, 1 fish per day is way too much, we need a 0 limit. Go gar go.

Grout,
Nobody is trying to save the Gar. I could care less what the limit is. I'm all for a no limit like it was prior to 2009. Point being, it still won't have any major affect on the Bass population.

Internet killed falcon along with fillet knives. Big events during warm weather months don't help. You can't change that but dang the elites wasted some big fish. Each person has to take responsibility and I think that gets overlooked when its a once in a lifetime trip to a lake you may never go back to.

Agreed And it was not just the big tournaments...There were a ton of other tournaments that started adding up.... Then a record drought and extended low water which some of us believe did cause the gar to eat an above normal amount of game fish. Add those all together and you see what we got.

Sometimes you got to put the smack down on the coyotes, Bobcats, and coons to make the quail, turkey, and deer boom.

James, some people would argue with you if you told them the sky was blue.

There's too many damn gar...period!

Is this ALL about gar? Seriously?
What is there to debate?
New rule, no problem.
Closet gar lovers...gotta watch em.