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Re: What if instead of rain we just used displacement?
[Re: Mulholland]
#10490803
12/23/14 05:21 AM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,922
Mulholland
OP
Extreme Angler
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OP
Extreme Angler
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,922 |
So what makes you guys be jerks about it? Your laco of understanding the science behind ot or just the desire to say something is difficult thereby impossible and not worth pursueing? Bunch of innovative revolutionary types around here, eh? Look, people alteady build giant pnuematic bags... Repurposong them isn't that wild of an idea. And you might lose an a-rig on one but you're not rupturing that stuff with a dinky bass hook. http://atlinc.com/inflatables.htmlGood brainstorming with yall though. I'm glad everyone was friendly and receptive and able to follow the conversation. Evjoy your empty lakes and praying for rain. Obviously that's working really well as a long term plan...
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Re: What if instead of rain we just used displacement?
[Re: Mulholland]
#10490848
12/23/14 08:58 AM
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,340
Bobby Milam
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,340 |
In theory it could be done. The problem is that they build the lakes to support the cities for drinking water. Fishing is just a byproduct of the lake as is the other recreational sports on the lake. We're lucky that they stock them. I doubt you'd ever find a politician willing to spend the kind of money just so a few fishermen could have a full lake.
As long as there is deep water that could be displaced, there is water for the fish. Just have to learn to adapt to deeper fishing.
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Re: What if instead of rain we just used displacement?
[Re: Mulholland]
#10490861
12/23/14 11:19 AM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,628
eggs'isled
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,628 |
It would be a better use of money to put in extended ramps and new deep water access ramps say down by the dam area...and all new lakes would be built with launch ramps that extend to the deepest water before the lake is filled...a lot cheaper and less to maintain than big air bags...I give you credit for thinking outside of the box !...Merry Christmas !
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Re: What if instead of rain we just used displacement?
[Re: Mulholland]
#10490889
12/23/14 12:15 PM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,187
Lil joe
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,187 |
It would be awesome to see a project like this attempted but the masterminds that control the lakes would never spend the money on it because they do not fish or do anything fun at the lake and they couldn't care less about the businesses such as the marinas that depend on the water levels.
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Re: What if instead of rain we just used displacement?
[Re: Mulholland]
#10490916
12/23/14 12:42 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 20,704
Douglas J
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 20,704 |
When the population of a state grows from roughly 16 million to 26-28 million in 25 years and in that same time period the state increases it's major water storage by less than 5% then you have the situation we have know.
The money may be better spent by constructing new resivoirs to try and catch up with our expanding population. People are flocking to Texas at the rate of 80-100k per month. Throw in all the bada bing bada boom, oops I'm pregnant and we need more water storage capabilities.
I like that you are thinking and your ability to go outside the box. Thinking like that may very well be the key to solving a lot of our issues.
#MFGA
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Re: What if instead of rain we just used displacement?
[Re: Mulholland]
#10490924
12/23/14 12:45 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,616
361V
TFF Celebrity
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Posts: 7,616 |
The deepest water would always remain the same depth within reason and you'd have a large surface area. The areas nearest shore are steepest generally. The amount needed to raise vs. spread the lake would be a desirable ratio I am certain. If you raised the entire lake bed up 5ft in effect, the lake wouldn't be 5ft shallower, the surface of the lake just raises 5ft in elevation, and gets the ramps and stuff back out of the water. It' a more elegant solution than you probably realize even.
Definitely agree on plausible to put in effect probably not but anything is possible with enough money, and probably much cheaper than new reservoirs or de-silting current ones BUT, when the rains finally come you are forced to send the water downstream when it gets back to "full pool" level which means you have simply decreased the storage capacity of the lake with the "displacement plan". But YES you did accomplish getting the full pool shoreline when the lake was actually 1/2 full.
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Re: What if instead of rain we just used displacement?
[Re: Mulholland]
#10490956
12/23/14 01:11 PM
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,666
Bradshuflin aka hunter'sdad
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,666 |
Who would maintain and operate this water displacement system? When I go to the ramp your lucky if they have tags, pencils, toilet paper, etc. available.
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Re: What if instead of rain we just used displacement?
[Re: Mulholland]
#10490975
12/23/14 01:29 PM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 823
JACKTHE
Pro Angler
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Pro Angler
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 823 |
How bout instead of allowing all that water to run down the mississippi into the ocean, we build a pipeline and pump some of it over here ? Probably be cheaper. Lighten up man, Some of these guys are having a little fun. You know what they say about "If they can't take a joke".
Jack Theroff
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Re: What if instead of rain we just used displacement?
[Re: Mulholland]
#10490977
12/23/14 01:31 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 85,919
John175☮
MACHO MAN
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MACHO MAN
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 85,919 |
It would be more cost effective to extend the ramps.
“Do not pray for easier lives. Pray to be stronger men.†-JFK
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Re: What if instead of rain we just used displacement?
[Re: 361V]
#10491024
12/23/14 01:59 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,922
Mulholland
OP
Extreme Angler
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OP
Extreme Angler
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,922 |
The deepest water would always remain the same depth within reason and you'd have a large surface area. The areas nearest shore are steepest generally. The amount needed to raise vs. spread the lake would be a desirable ratio I am certain. If you raised the entire lake bed up 5ft in effect, the lake wouldn't be 5ft shallower, the surface of the lake just raises 5ft in elevation, and gets the ramps and stuff back out of the water. It' a more elegant solution than you probably realize even.
Definitely agree on plausible to put in effect probably not but anything is possible with enough money, and probably much cheaper than new reservoirs or de-silting current ones BUT, when the rains finally come you are forced to send the water downstream when it gets back to "full pool" level which means you have simply decreased the storage capacity of the lake with the "displacement plan". But YES you did accomplish getting the full pool shoreline when the lake was actually 1/2 full. You empty bladders and lake returns to full capacity. As for who will maintain it... They already have to build more reservoirs, and reservoirs making more money means more money to spend pn them I'd imagine so recreation has to be wprth something to consider. The fishing indistry in Texas represents a lot of money... What about lakes like Eagle Mountain, Cedar Creek, etc. Where they have boat houses along nearly the entire shore? What does extending boat ramps do for those? Nothing. A longer boat ramp does nothing for the marinas either. It isn't about going out and learning to fish the deeper water. *shrug* it was just an abstract simple idea, and being a simple fisherman, I was curious if some fancy scientist/engineers had thought of or tried anything similar to anyone's knowledge coz I'd like to see it expanded upon. It is within the realm of possibilities... Honestly it isn't even that farfetched at all and could pr9bably be automated pretty simple into spillway controls as well as far as who woupd control it. Just because they don't dp [censored] at the ramps at your local lake doesn't mean that spillway isnt manned, and like I said, the displacement system would be reservoir control that aided fisherman and anyone whp uses the lake itself.
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Re: What if instead of rain we just used displacement?
[Re: Mulholland]
#10491046
12/23/14 02:09 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,228
YankHardReelFast
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,228 |
I can appreciate your thinking. In theory, the inflatable bag would sure work. I'm pretty sure the bag would have to be very large to have any kind of positive effect. As mentioned above, I think the answer to the lower water problem is to improve the ramps and main lake access. Unfortunately, the government will never kick in the millions needed to improve any of this for us, and the private sectors can't deem it financially feasible to sink hundreds of thousands of dollars in dredging a cove and extended ramps. I think a more logical answer is for us all to buy big Bubba trucks where we can back down in the mud and launch into the main lake.
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Re: What if instead of rain we just used displacement?
[Re: Mulholland]
#10491062
12/23/14 02:17 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,070
kellisag
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,070 |
It would take huge air bladders to raise a lake by 5 feet like you are saying.
No to mention you would be increasing the surface area causing more water loss due to evaporation. Also just because you and I don't fish the deepest portions of the lake what about the striper/cat fisherman that do?
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Re: What if instead of rain we just used displacement?
[Re: Mulholland]
#10491071
12/23/14 02:20 PM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,264
SheCrappieKilla
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,264 |
Doesn't shallow water evaporate the fastest? Let's displace water into the shallow flats so it can evaporate at a faster rate to reduce the volume even lower. Better keep them air blather air pumps running nonstop.
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Re: What if instead of rain we just used displacement?
[Re: Mulholland]
#10491072
12/23/14 02:20 PM
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 8,379
Jpurdue
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 8,379 |
I'm an engineer and found the idea interesting so I did the math for you. It's a pretty straightforward application of Archimedes Principal. I'll spare you the details, but using some ballpark figures for the capacity of Fork at full pool and that fact that it is somewhere close to 7 feet low right now you would need to displace roughly 3.8 billion gallons of water to raise the water level 7 feet at the shoreline. If you were going to use a bladder like you suggest it would need to be 20 feet deep and cover roughly a square mile of surface area. You would also need thousands of concrete foundations buried in the lake bed with chains attached to hold down the bladder which would have an upwards force in excess of 136 billions newtons of force. Could it be done? I believe so, but I'd guess the cost would run in the billions. A slightly cheaper alternative would be to erect a new dam wall that cordoned off a couple of square miles of the lake. As the main lake level got lower, you could pump water out into the main body to raise the level back up. Reversing the condition would be as simple as opening a flood gate. Unfortunately I do not see an economically feasible way to displace water to regulate pool. It's a interesting idea but not very practical in application.
"Bragging may not bring happiness, but no man having caught a large fish goes home through an alley." -A.L. www.LunkerLore.com
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Re: What if instead of rain we just used displacement?
[Re: Mulholland]
#10491083
12/23/14 02:24 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,181
JacksonBean
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,181 |
I actually think it's a great idea. Volumetric loss would have an exaggerated effect upon the water column based on how the displacement was arranged within the body of water itself. And air bladders? That might get tricky because you'd have to weight them down and you could still have one rupture. A super dense liquid would be ideal but none come to mind that we could pump out quickly and store or that if the bladders did rupture wouldn't contaminate the water itself.
The benefits would be awesome...... Full pool lakes until the rain comes. One day there will be something that solves this dilemma and we will wonder why we didn't consider it early. It's unfortunate so many on here are so obtuse.
The idea has merit..... It's just one that has a lot of unknowns at this point. When I saw the indoor mountain range with people skiing down it 24 hours a day I realized you can't think "too big" anymore.
J
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