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Re: Tow Vehicle - F150 vs. Tundra
[Re: Samsonsworld]
#10588849
02/02/15 09:35 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
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BassBucknBeer
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I don't think it was a record button. Most dynos aren't accurate at low rpms, which is why most start to read around 2-3k rpms. In fact, they talk about the complications of setting the dyno up in the first article. They are trying to load up the engine with resistance enough to get some readings. Changing set-ups between the 2 engines will not give results that can be compared as apples to apples. Notice they go on to say "we're not saying that EcoBoost doesn't make its published torque on the road in the real world". Speaking of, I'd put mine in a real world test at low rpms vs a stock tundra, any day. Go drive one, it'll make a believer of you. well in the last 10 yrs i operated a dyno every day of the week you have to hit a "record" button to start the run and the "record" button again to stop the run at Red line or in this case when the tranny shifts. You can start a dyno chart at any rpm...even at idle. The reason why they were having difficulty is because in order for a turbo motor to spool up at low rpms you must have a load (like you would on the street pulling a trailer) some dynos are roller dyno which free spool. Fine for NA cars, but turbo cars need that load to "show on paper what they advertise"... think about what turbo cars do at the track. Step on the brake and load up the transmission so the turbos can start making boost. Oh, and by the way, I've driven them many times. They have plenty of grunt down low. That's the Beauty of boost.I don't think I've said you have a weak truck. There are pluses and minuses Though. Honestly I came real close to buying an ecoboost, but didn't because I knew I wouldn't be able to resist the urge of tuning it! Lol
Last edited by BassBucknBeer; 02/02/15 09:36 PM.
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Re: Tow Vehicle - F150 vs. Tundra
[Re: BassBucknBeer]
#10593291
02/04/15 03:08 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 7,580
Samsonsworld
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(because the turbo's are inefficient at high rpms) You sure about that? I'm betting it turns more than 5k. The Blue Oval gang shook up the automotive universe today when it unveiled an all-new Ford GT (slated for a 2016 release) powered by a twin-turbo V6. The 3.5L EcoBoost is reported to make more than 600 horsepower. 2016 Ford GT
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Re: Tow Vehicle - F150 vs. Tundra
[Re: BassBucknBeer]
#10593495
02/04/15 04:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,490
redchevy
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Seems to me that your original point assumes they are constructed out of the same materials though.
Yes maybe they both have a block and crank made out of the same material, but those aren't typically engine life determining components... either they are strong enough or they aren't. I don't see a lot of motors with bricken cranks. All the motors I have retired have been due to suffering performance, oil consumption, loss of fuel mileage, not a broken crank or cracked block. Well, crank shaft and rods do matter, but since you don't think so, we won't even discuss that. We used to not see them forged as much as we do now so someone thought they are important to be strong. You are helping me prove my point. The motors you retired all had pretty much the same problem: Worn rings and cylinder walls. Worn rings will cause low compression and oil blow-by causing low power, oil consumption, and loss of mileage. This comes from normal use (age) and lack of maintenance. I said they both use cast alluminum pistons. Most all engines these days use some form of steel cylinder sleeves and steel piston rings I'm sure the Ford uses these too (theres really not many other options). These days they are using different type of coatings on the pistons and rings to help with heat. Now, like I said before what makes turbo cars wear out faster is because they have the same amount of power spread over less cylinders. Same amount of fuel, heat, wear pressing against 6 pistons and their rings instead of 8...I'm not even mentioning all the bearings that there are less of taking the beating because there are less of them too. In our next round lets discuss the difference in heat created by a turbo vs NA motors and their challanges. That's a whole 'nother discussion. Not all bearings rods cranks and rings are created equal. Not even all of those componets created from the same materials are created equal. That would be like assuming ford put the same main bearings in the ecoboost as they did in their naturally aspirated v-6, which im betting they didn't. Look at the crank in a gas motor and the crank in a turbo diesel, while they can both be made of the same material the diesel will by far outweigh the gasser. Fur is fur, but a 2x10 piece of fir is stronger than a 2x4. More heat can be dealt with larger cooling systems and more oil capacity. I consider the usable life of a gas 1/2 ton to be about 200k miles if they both last that long I consider it a moot point. Will they run past that? Sure, I had one I drove every day and used and abused with what I did with it 265k all original miles but I think past 200k the expectations of buyers is greatly reduced. Will and ecoboost hit 200k? I would bet they will do just fine, but haven't personally seen them do it. Not sure what the expected service life is but assume it will be more than enough.
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Re: Tow Vehicle - F150 vs. Tundra
[Re: redchevy]
#10593611
02/04/15 04:51 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 423
BassBucknBeer
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Will and ecoboost hit 200k? I would bet they will do just fine, but haven't personally seen them do it. Not sure what the expected service life is but assume it will be more than enough. let's just assume the block holds up to 200,000 miles. That's not the biggest worry. The Turbos won't live as long as the block and they cost $2200 to replace somewhere around 150,000 miles. Factor in that cost alone in addition to the added cost of the ecoboost upgrade and you'll have to drive the ecoboost over 240,000ish miles to just break even. Even counting the fuel savings (if there even is any because you have to run premium fuel to get the power they claim) Here is an interesting article that explains it in detail. http://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/ford-ecoboost-turbo-replacement-cost/
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Re: Tow Vehicle - F150 vs. Tundra
[Re: Samsonsworld]
#10593635
02/04/15 04:59 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 423
BassBucknBeer
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(because the turbo's are inefficient at high rpms) You sure about that? I'm betting it turns more than 5k. The Blue Oval gang shook up the automotive universe today when it unveiled an all-new Ford GT (slated for a 2016 release) powered by a twin-turbo V6. The 3.5L EcoBoost is reported to make more than 600 horsepower. 2016 Ford GT not the same block, not the same turbo. Just because it says 3.5 and ecoboost doesn't mean it's the same... look up nissan gtr, they've beat ford to 600 in their twin turbo v6 "ecoboost"
Last edited by BassBucknBeer; 02/04/15 05:03 PM.
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Re: Tow Vehicle - F150 vs. Tundra
[Re: BassBucknBeer]
#10593704
02/04/15 05:28 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 7,580
Samsonsworld
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Will and ecoboost hit 200k? I would bet they will do just fine, but haven't personally seen them do it. Not sure what the expected service life is but assume it will be more than enough. let's just assume the block holds up to 200,000 miles. That's not the biggest worry. The Turbos won't live as long as the block and they cost $2200 to replace somewhere around 150,000 miles. Factor in that cost alone in addition to the added cost of the ecoboost upgrade and you'll have to drive the ecoboost over 240,000ish miles to just break even. Even counting the fuel savings (if there even is any because you have to run premium fuel to get the power they claim) Here is an interesting article that explains it in detail. http://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/ford-ecoboost-turbo-replacement-cost/ I can find you multiple claims of over 150k miles and not one of them have replaced the turbos. Also, the power numbers are based on 87 octane. Only the Lincoln requires premium and it produces 380hp and 460lbft torque.
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Re: Tow Vehicle - F150 vs. Tundra
[Re: JB in Ft Worth]
#10593820
02/04/15 06:03 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 423
BassBucknBeer
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I 100% will guarantee they used at least 91 octane for their numbers. From the owner's manual:
3.5L V6 EcoBoostTM engine Your vehicle is designed to run on regular fuel with an octane rating of 87 or higher. For best overall performance, premium fuel with an octane rating of 91 or higher is recommended. The performance gained by using premium fuel will be most noticeable in hot weather or in severe duty applications such as towing a trailer. just because it was "designed to run" on 87 doesn't mean it has 365 hp (or whatever it is) on 87oct. If you knew anything how these engines actually operate, you would understand this. You also have to understand that if ford didn't say it could run off of 87 octane, who would buy it? Would you buy it if they said it requires 91 octane? No.. marketing department gets paid a lot of money to convince you its OK. Another thing. Do you think the Lincoln that "requires" 91 Oct won't run on 87? It will, but the computer will reduce power.they have to require you to use higher octane because they tune it up just a touch so they can justify the Lincoln premium.who would want a Lincoln that has the same power as a ford? It's all in marketing wording. I have a 2013 mustang gt sitting in the driveway (see I'm not anti ford) 5.0 that advertises 420hp 390tq on 91oct, but only 402hp 377tq on 87. Ford knows marketing.
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Re: Tow Vehicle - F150 vs. Tundra
[Re: Samsonsworld]
#10593823
02/04/15 06:04 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 423
BassBucknBeer
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You won't find any litature from ford that says that.
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Re: Tow Vehicle - F150 vs. Tundra
[Re: JB in Ft Worth]
#10594001
02/04/15 06:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,490
redchevy
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My fill and other family members with eco's do minimal maintenance on vehicles we will see how long theirs last. I would be surprised if the turbos go at 150k.
Im eager to see how the ecoboost holds up. I almost bought one in 2011 and didn't. I wish I would have now.
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Re: Tow Vehicle - F150 vs. Tundra
[Re: JB in Ft Worth]
#10594030
02/04/15 07:07 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 7,580
Samsonsworld
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Well, maybe we could find more accurate HP numbers for the ecoboost at tundra.com.
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Re: Tow Vehicle - F150 vs. Tundra
[Re: Samsonsworld]
#10594036
02/04/15 07:08 PM
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,008
fordnut
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Well, maybe we could find more accurate HP numbers for the ecoboost at tundra.com.
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Re: Tow Vehicle - F150 vs. Tundra
[Re: Samsonsworld]
#10594097
02/04/15 07:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,490
redchevy
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Well, maybe we could find more accurate HP numbers for the ecoboost at tundra.com. Seems to be a common theme with his info.
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Re: Tow Vehicle - F150 vs. Tundra
[Re: Samsonsworld]
#10594127
02/04/15 07:42 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 423
BassBucknBeer
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Well, maybe we could find more accurate HP numbers for the ecoboost at tundra.com. lol, you think ford is going to advertise anything other than excellence? Lol
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Re: Tow Vehicle - F150 vs. Tundra
[Re: Samsonsworld]
#10594130
02/04/15 07:43 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
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BassBucknBeer
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Repost
Last edited by BassBucknBeer; 02/04/15 07:43 PM.
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