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Re: TPWD stocking SAL fingerlings in Jalisco Lake (La Perla) [Re: La Perla Ranch] #10163820 07/25/14 02:49 PM
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Fishbreeder Offline
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"It is all so very improbable, as is my whole life story.
Thanks for your thoughts man,
Gary

_________________________
La Perla Ranch
Zapata County, Texas
tecomateranch.com"

Quoted.

Ain't America GREAT!

An "improbable life story," mine as well. Just gotta love it.

Nowhere else on planet Earth is the improbable as possible as it is in "These United States. "

I mean it lets all of us be both Monday morning quarterbacks and armchair fisheries biologists, as we see a lot of in all these um, er, uh...comments.

If so many of yall feel such a need to be outraged, there are indeed, extremely important and truly outrageous things for such, this ain't one of 'em.

Of some import, perhaps, but not life and death, and just not very high on the outrageous meter, not even a blip.

How would yall feel about "storing" SAL fish in private fishing lakes? Or just flat out stocking private waters full up with everything needed for a fishery, as a political favor? How about "giving" large bass caught by "on the clock" state technicians with state equipment from state waters to the owners of "hog troughs" for display, abuse and eventual death at fishing shows? Or just simple crazy, politically based rule making across the board? I mean, a nine day red snapper season, really? I mean if you need outrage, its out there, plenty of it and genuinely outrageous.

For the record, as a fisheries biologist, native Texan, and Texas fishing license (all water) holder, I fully support TP&WD and the efforts on their part and the part of private enterprise, in this case La Perla Ranch, and its owner(s) and employees, in the further research and development of our state's freshwater fishery resources, through scientific discovery and other means.

Moritz Chevrolet - 9101 Camp Bowie W Blvd, Fort Worth, TX - Monte Coon (817) 696-2003
Re: TPWD stocking SAL fingerlings in Jalisco Lake (La Perla) [Re: Fishbreeder] #10163887 07/25/14 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted By: Fishbreeder



For the record, as a fisheries biologist, native Texan, and Texas fishing license (all water) holder, I fully support TP&WD and the efforts on their part and the part of private enterprise, in this case La Perla Ranch, and its owner(s) and employees, in the further research and development of our state's freshwater fishery resources, through scientific discovery and other means.



So for the record, if none of the conditions in this experiment can/will be duplicated in public waters, how will this benefit Texas fishing in general? Maybe that has already been answered in another post but if it was I missed it.

What is the benefit of this program vs just stocking pure Florida strain? That is how it all got started. 28 years of the SAL and doesn't seem like the size of the SAL fish in public waters are increasing. Why not just increase the amount of pure Florida strain in public waters? Why are SAL entered fish that are not pure Florida strain rejected. If the fish reached 13lbs plus without being pure Florida strain, it must have something going for it.

I realize some of the "experts" resent the questions and negative outlook but that is part of the checks and balances. Since it is our tax dollars we need to question how and why it is being spent, especially if it has the appearance of not being for the public good. Just because something is done by the government (state for federal) certainly does not automatically make it the right thing to do.

Maybe if TPW was more forthcoming with information on what they are doing and why there might be less skepticism.

Re: TPWD stocking SAL fingerlings in Jalisco Lake (La Perla) [Re: Troyz] #10163977 07/25/14 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted By: Troyz
Originally Posted By: Fishbreeder



For the record, as a fisheries biologist, native Texan, and Texas fishing license (all water) holder, I fully support TP&WD and the efforts on their part and the part of private enterprise, in this case La Perla Ranch, and its owner(s) and employees, in the further research and development of our state's freshwater fishery resources, through scientific discovery and other means.



So for the record, if none of the conditions in this experiment can/will be duplicated in public waters, how will this benefit Texas fishing in general? Maybe that has already been answered in another post but if it was I missed it.

What is the benefit of this program vs just stocking pure Florida strain? That is how it all got started. 28 years of the SAL and doesn't seem like the size of the SAL fish in public waters are increasing. Why not just increase the amount of pure Florida strain in public waters? Why are SAL entered fish that are not pure Florida strain rejected. If the fish reached 13lbs plus without being pure Florida strain, it must have something going for it.

I realize some of the "experts" resent the questions and negative outlook but that is part of the checks and balances. Since it is our tax dollars we need to question how and why it is being spent, especially if it has the appearance of not being for the public good. Just because something is done by the government (state for federal) certainly does not automatically make it the right thing to do.

Maybe if TPW was more forthcoming with information on what they are doing and why there might be less skepticism.


The answer was that they will be sending SAL's to the program that are grown from the SAL fry donated to La Perla. And that is a positive if you believe that the SAL fry are anything but Florida's which as you said, can be stocked now. I hope that something will come of the experiment but it's not clear what.

And as an aside not sure why so many folks take offence to some questioning of the program and blindly feel that anyone that questions it is some sort of a jealous whiner. I could and I'm guessing others could afford to fish it if that was a priority and as anything else in life (sport, women, bird dogs etc.) there are two sides to any question. Yet it seems in the case of La Perla any questions or opinions are viewed as negative/hostile. As Fousman said in 8 or 9 years we will know if they are on to anything special in the mean time debate is healthy.


Re: TPWD stocking SAL fingerlings in Jalisco Lake (La Perla) [Re: Fishbreeder] #10164090 07/25/14 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted By: Fishbreeder
"It is all so very improbable, as is my whole life story.
Thanks for your thoughts man,
Gary

_________________________
La Perla Ranch
Zapata County, Texas
tecomateranch.com"

Quoted.

Ain't America GREAT!

An "improbable life story," mine as well. Just gotta love it.

Nowhere else on planet Earth is the improbable as possible as it is in "These United States. "

I mean it lets all of us be both Monday morning quarterbacks and armchair fisheries biologists, as we see a lot of in all these um, er, uh...comments.

If so many of yall feel such a need to be outraged, there are indeed, extremely important and truly outrageous things for such, this ain't one of 'em.

Of some import, perhaps, but not life and death, and just not very high on the outrageous meter, not even a blip.

How would yall feel about "storing" SAL fish in private fishing lakes? Or just flat out stocking private waters full up with everything needed for a fishery, as a political favor? How about "giving" large bass caught by "on the clock" state technicians with state equipment from state waters to the owners of "hog troughs" for display, abuse and eventual death at fishing shows? Or just simple crazy, politically based rule making across the board? I mean, a nine day red snapper season, really? I mean if you need outrage, its out there, plenty of it and genuinely outrageous.

For the record, as a fisheries biologist, native Texan, and Texas fishing license (all water) holder, I fully support TP&WD and the efforts on their part and the part of private enterprise, in this case La Perla Ranch, and its owner(s) and employees, in the further research and development of our state's freshwater fishery resources, through scientific discovery and other means.






CAN I GET AN AMEN???!!!!

rock


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Re: TPWD stocking SAL fingerlings in Jalisco Lake (La Perla) [Re: Troyz] #10164127 07/25/14 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted By: Troyz


So for the record, if none of the conditions in this experiment can/will be duplicated in public waters, how will this benefit Texas fishing in general? Maybe that has already been answered in another post but if it was I missed it.




It's called the scientific method. We use scientific controls to better isolate an independent variable and weigh its effect on the outcome. It's actually the onus of those who started the SAL program. Will we realize that the individuality of the genetics of micropterus salmoides floridanus be deemed a non-factor 20 years from now? Possibly. Does it mean the experiments shouldn't be done just because you found out you were wrong? Absolutely not.

So while you guys call foul so more section eight housing can be put up with our tax dollars, I say experiment all you can on the green devils.


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Re: TPWD stocking SAL fingerlings in Jalisco Lake (La Perla) [Re: JacksonBean] #10164176 07/25/14 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted By: JacksonBean
[quote=Troyz]

So for the record, if none of the conditions in this experiment can/will be duplicated in public waters, how will this benefit Texas fishing in general? Maybe that has already been answered in another post but if it was I missed it.




Originally Posted By: JacksonBean
It's called the scientific method. We use scientific controls to better isolate an independent variable and weigh its effect on the outcome. It's actually the onus of those who started the SAL program. Will we realize that the individuality of the genetics of micropterus salmoides floridanus be deemed a non-factor 20 years from now? Possibly. Does it mean the experiments shouldn't be done just because you may find out that you were wrong? Absolutely not.


Fixed your post.

Originally Posted By: JacksonBean
So while you guys call foul so more section eight housing can be put up with our tax dollars, I say experiment all you can on the green devils.

What?


Re: TPWD stocking SAL fingerlings in Jalisco Lake (La Perla) [Re: Fishbreeder] #10164279 07/25/14 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted By: Fishbreeder
"It is all so very improbable, as is my whole life story.
Thanks for your thoughts man,
Gary

_________________________
La Perla Ranch
Zapata County, Texas
tecomateranch.com"

Quoted.

Ain't America GREAT!

An "improbable life story," mine as well. Just gotta love it.

Nowhere else on planet Earth is the improbable as possible as it is in "These United States. "

I mean it lets all of us be both Monday morning quarterbacks and armchair fisheries biologists, as we see a lot of in all these um, er, uh...comments.

If so many of yall feel such a need to be outraged, there are indeed, extremely important and truly outrageous things for such, this ain't one of 'em.

Of some import, perhaps, but not life and death, and just not very high on the outrageous meter, not even a blip.

How would yall feel about "storing" SAL fish in private fishing lakes? Or just flat out stocking private waters full up with everything needed for a fishery, as a political favor? How about "giving" large bass caught by "on the clock" state technicians with state equipment from state waters to the owners of "hog troughs" for display, abuse and eventual death at fishing shows? Or just simple crazy, politically based rule making across the board? I mean, a nine day red snapper season, really? I mean if you need outrage, its out there, plenty of it and genuinely outrageous.

For the record, as a fisheries biologist, native Texan, and Texas fishing license (all water) holder, I fully support TP&WD and the efforts on their part and the part of private enterprise, in this case La Perla Ranch, and its owner(s) and employees, in the further research and development of our state's freshwater fishery resources, through scientific discovery and other means.



But this topic isn't about any of those other things. Its about the wasteful spending of tax money on a program that is basically just a playground for biologist to "test" theories. If Dr. Schwartz wants to create a million big bass lakes, that's ok, but its not ok to waste public money on it. I understand SALS will be donated back but that doesn't change the fact of the waste of money. That money would be well spent on maybe, more lake patrol on these dfw lakes or lakes like Conroe, better nutritional stocking of lakes, many ways. I understand guys support this but don't trash the guys that question the topic (not you specifically fishbreeder) because they don't see it your way.

Re: TPWD stocking SAL fingerlings in Jalisco Lake (La Perla) [Re: Jordan Shipley] #10164311 07/25/14 05:36 PM
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We are basically giving his family a High Fence bass fishery to be passed on for generations, and used as a means of income generation.

Re: TPWD stocking SAL fingerlings in Jalisco Lake (La Perla) [Re: Jordan Shipley] #10164314 07/25/14 05:36 PM
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How much money is being wasted? Do you have numbers?

Re: TPWD stocking SAL fingerlings in Jalisco Lake (La Perla) [Re: Jordan Shipley] #10164365 07/25/14 05:52 PM
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I've gotta say, as a bass fisherman, I think this whole deal is really cool. It is very similar to the way that so many high fence game ranches are ran. I hope this experiment is successful and leads to hundreds of places just like it. I think it would be a great idea for someone to build small, trophy fisheries where a person could more or less pay to catch a double digit bass. Look at how successful the trophy fishing trips to Mexico are. The only difference with this would be, no passport, no hour(s) long rides to the resort, and a whole lot less dangerous. I applaud Dr. S and all of the folks involved in this and I hope it goes well.

As far as the tax dollars go, I will be the last one to start complaining about my tax dollars being spent on FISHING!!! Wow! People will spend thousands of dollars a year on boats, tackle, fuel, etc. and complain about, in my best guess, less than $1 of their tax money going towards a research project on a private lake.

Re: TPWD stocking SAL fingerlings in Jalisco Lake (La Perla) [Re: Jordan Shipley] #10164419 07/25/14 06:15 PM
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This would be a non issue if the fish were purchased from TPWD. There should be no private lakes stocked using State funds!

Re: TPWD stocking SAL fingerlings in Jalisco Lake (La Perla) [Re: forkduc] #10164793 07/25/14 08:12 PM
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Fun Topic!!

Let's look at each bass fry as a 1 dollar bill. When I stocked my private lake, it cost me 1 dollar for each 3 - 4 inch Florida strain bass.

Let's say the state has $7,000 of these 1 dollar bills they want to deposit into an account to get back $150,000 1 dollar bills in 8 years.

Sounds like a pretty good gamble to me if the intention is to gather as many "genetically superior" bass fry as possible to stock into the state's public waters.

My opinion: If the state can remove fish from Jalisco as they want for 15 years, how many SAL sized fish can they raise to supplement the SAL stocking program. My guess is they can get millions of fry over that period for the initial outlay of 7,000 fry.

Re: TPWD stocking SAL fingerlings in Jalisco Lake (La Perla) [Re: Jordan Shipley] #10164867 07/25/14 08:31 PM
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When I hear the question raised "Why are we doing this research if we can't benefit from it?" It makes think about NASA. Guess they also don't want to fund a space program. Can't possibly learn anything there, can't duplicate space and zero gravity.

Very gripping discussion, but if you don't get how doing research in a controlled environment will help, then guess you don't like much of the benefits science has attributed to our society over the years. Just because we don't have results when the project starts, doesn't mean there will not be results in the end. Patience, it takes failures to get successes, but all of it is a learning processes.

I am so excited for Gary. I am also very excited for Camelot Bell, and the other 14 or 15 contract lakes the state has. I would love to get Allen F. on here from TPWD. I would rather hear about the lakes that have had 8 years of growing bass. Then we can check back in on Gary, 6yrs down the road he will probably have a 13lb'er (Avg age being 11yrs in the SAL), Wondering if 12yrs is long enough to grow a 20lb'er.

Re: TPWD stocking SAL fingerlings in Jalisco Lake (La Perla) [Re: Jordan Shipley] #10164874 07/25/14 08:33 PM
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I'm not big on taxpayer money going to private lakes.. Lake McQueeney is an example.. Taxpayer dollars help maintain and stock that lake, yet there is no public access to the lake.. I would like to fish it, but can't get to it..

If they want to do a "research lake" then the lake should be owned by TPWD.. If the public cant fish it, then nobody should get to fish it.. It's a research lake after all.. Correct ?


Re: TPWD stocking SAL fingerlings in Jalisco Lake (La Perla) [Re: Airik] #10164892 07/25/14 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: Airik
I'm not big on taxpayer money going to private lakes.. Lake McQueeney is an example.. Taxpayer dollars help maintain and stock that lake, yet there is no public access to the lake.. I would like to fish it, but can't get to it..

If they want to do a "research lake" then the lake should be owned by TPWD.. If the public cant fish it, then nobody should get to fish it.. It's a research lake after all.. Correct ?


He can't fish it with out TPWD authority. It's TPWD lake on his property for 15 yrs. After that he can have it back. It cost TPWD some travel expenses and 7,000 fry.

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